How to nail your branding photoshoot even if you hate having your photo taken with Vicki Knights from Vicki Knights Photography
What’s this episode about?
In the first in a 3-part branding series, I speak to Vicki Knights about branding photoshoots and how you can make the most of them - even if you haven’t had a professional photo taken since your wedding day!
Vicki is a brilliant guest and we talk about common concerns and questions about branding photoshoots (including what to do if you’re worried about a double chin like I was!) as well as the beliefs and fears lots of us have about being visible in our business and how that can hold you back (and what to do it about!).
Episode key takeaways:
Why you need to show your face in your business (yes, even if you have a product business)
How to overcome your concerns/ fears about the shoot
Being more visible in our business and how professional photos can help
Finding the right branding photographer for you
How to prepare for a branding shoot
What to do with your photos once you have them
KEY LINKS:
Free guide – 8 ways to get visible in your business with confidence -
Instagram: @vickiknights.branding
Website: vickiknights.co.uk
INTRODUCING… VICKI KNIGHTS
Vicki Knights is a visibility strategist and one of the UK's leading branding photographers. With well over a decade of experience, she has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs to show up with confidence with her magnetic brand photography, 121 training and her Visibility Retreat. Her work has been featured in publications around the world including Vanity Fair, Cosmopolitan, Forbes, The Telegraph and The Guardian.
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Read the transcript:
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to growing pains. The marketing podcast for brands who want to grow and get more consistent sales, but without the overwhelm of feeling like you have to be online 24 7, I'm Sophie, your host, and a Facebook and Instagram ad strategist
join me each week as I alongside some wonderful guests, she had practical tips and advice about how you can use and combine marketing strategies to get more impact for your effort.
Sophie: Hello and welcome. Today I am thrilled to be here with Vicky from Vicky Knight's Photography. She is one of the leading branding photographers with well over a decade of experience.
She's helped hundreds of entrepreneurs show up in their business with her magnetic branding photography. She also inspires people to show up more in their business and is the founder of the Visibility Retreat. Her work has been featured in publications around the world, including Vanity Fair, cosmopolitan, mother and Baby Magazine, the Telegraph and The [00:01:00] Guardian.
And I would just like to add to that as well. I have also had my photo taken by Vicky Knight. She was the first person to pop my personal branding photo cherry.
Vicki: What an honor.
Sophie: what an honor. So welcome to the podcast.
Vicki: Oh, thank you, Sophie. It's a big pleasure to be here.
Sophie: I am thrilled to have you here. I should also say as well, Vicky has her own podcast, so she's like super slick professional, which is very exciting.
Vicki: I'm really, have you listened to the, is nothing super slick about it, I
Sophie: I've intimidated having other podcasters on. I'm like, oh, no. Realize I've got no idea.
Vicki: That's like when I photograph photographers, that's always like add added pressure. Yeah.
Sophie: So that's the official intro, but give us a bit of background. What's your work family life kind of set up at the
Vicki: So I live in the depths of sury like Hampshire, Sussex borders with my husband, my two boys who are 14 and 12, two dogs and a cat. So it's pretty, pretty chaotic, which is why, which is why I'm sat in the, just had a [00:02:00] garden office built so I can escape from the noise
Sophie: I'm incredibly jealous of the garden office. If you follow, if anyone follows me on Instagram, you'll see that I'm always like lusting over people's garden offices.
Vicki: Well, it's been 14 years in the making, like I've always dreamt of having it. So it's yeah, I'm very happy first shoot in it tomorrow. Very excited.
Sophie: So,
Vicki: so like a lot of your listeners, this is not gonna be an unusual story. I set up my business after having my first son. I loved my job in London.
I worked I was head of sponsorship for a group of radio stations, but it was a full on job. I was like managing a team. Five days a week and they didn't want me to go to three days, so I was like, right. So I set up my business then and haven't looked back. Like it was it, I loved it right from the very start.
Obviously you have up and downs being an entrepreneur, but yeah, I wouldn't do anything else.
Sophie: Yeah, I think it's such a familiar story, isn't it? And actually it's interesting, like 14 years, it's quite a long time, isn't it? To be working for yourself.
Vicki: Making me feel
Sophie: Really old. Yeah. Sorry about that, . I said, oh my gosh. I've been doing it [00:03:00] five years and I still feel like relatively new, but I know it's lovely to talk to people that are a little bit further on as well, and like, It's a long term thing.
Not if I feel sometimes it's almost a bit like, oh, just when the kids are young and like, it feels like a very much like a, oh, your kids are young. You need to be available. That's why you work for yourself. But I'm going through a bit of a, a bit of a thing at the moment where I'm realizing, actually it's not really for my kids anymore.
It's actually for me. Like, I like working for myself, I'm being flexible and, and all that sort of stuff.
Vicki: Totally. And you can then mold your business around the stage your kids are at, which is lovely. But you are right. I had people when the boys were young as they sort of went to school, everyone was like, so you're gonna go back to work now? I'm like excuse me. I do work. I have my own business.
Sophie: It's actually a real thing guys
Vicki: yeah, I think they thought it was like a nice little hobby on the side.
I'm like, no, this is a proper business. A promise. So no, it's even, to be honest, I mean it was brilliant when the boys were young and it worked around them perfectly. , but it works equally as well. Now, like I have all the school holidays off, I can chop 'em off, pick them up. So [00:04:00] yeah, it, I I love running my own business around the kids.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. Right now we need to get to know your views on the really important stuff so we have the quick fire round. Are you ready?
Vicki: I am ready
Sophie: Good. Tea or coffee?
Vicki: Coffee. Very un of me. Sorry.
Sophie: All about the caffeine. Now this will be interesting cause you said you've got dogs and cats. Which do you prefer?
Vicki: that's like saying pick your favorite child,
Sophie: Oh, that's the next question. No
Vicki: I mean if it's my animals, I can't choose. If I'm talking about other people's pets, I'll go with dogs cuz they're
Sophie: More generically. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Bagels or crumpets?
Vicki: Oh God, I have bagels. But I love both. I mean, I'm not fusia.
Sophie: I haven't actually had anyone say that they like, oh no, I don't like either.
Vicki: Really?
Sophie: like, yeah, everyone's like, I
Vicki: Bring me the carbs. Yeah.
Sophie: me the car. White carbs beat your.
Vicki: I'm like you. I've heard you talking about you don't like the sound. I don't really like the sound, but I do love the beach and the sea and the views. So I'm gonna have to go beach.
Sophie: yeah. Winter or summer.
Vicki: Summer. Don't [00:05:00] like the cold.
Sophie: don't like the cold. We're going into the
Vicki: Yeah, I know. I don't like the cold, but I actually really like spring and Autumn are my favorite, if I'm
Sophie: Mm, actually, me too. I might
Vicki: Yeah. , yeah.
Sophie: Color or monochrome?
Vicki: Color.
Sophie: I knew you were gonna say
Vicki: Yeah.
Sophie: Early morning or late night.
Vicki: I am a night owl. As much as I
Sophie: I knew you were gonna
Vicki: it, I try to change it. I just can't. Although interestingly, I dunno if you know James Wedmore, have you heard of him? And I saw he did a reel recently saying he goes to bed at two three every morning in the morning and wakes up at 10 better.
Sophie: Oh my God. That's quite extreme, isn't it? Two 3:00 AM
Vicki: Yeah, and you hear all these 5:00 AM
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Vicki: like the complete opposite. Anyway, sorry, I went off your
Sophie: flipped
Vicki: Yeah,
Sophie: Yeah, I knew you were gonna say late night anyway, cuz I've been on a few nights out with Vicky and uh,
Vicki: always the party. I'm always the last to leave.
Sophie: Yeah. Right. Today we are talking all about personal branding shoots, and we're gonna talk about them both from a practical perspective, aren't we, in terms of like getting ready for one and how [00:06:00] to make the best of one and common like concerns people might have, as well as more from like a mindset and visibility of showing up in your business as you, and what that kind of looks like.
I think I want to say right at the beginning as. If you're an econ business, this is still for you as well. We are gonna be talking a bit more in detail later on about I mean, Vicky's worked with lots of product-based businesses and why you should think about pro personal branding shoots, as well as kind of product-based shoots as well.
So we'll jump all into that later on. But we wanna make sure that we're all talking about the same thing and. When you get started, it can be a bit confusing to know what do you need? Where do you start? I was saying to Vicky before we started, I literally, my only other professional shoot I'd had was my wedding day
So when I first started, I went to this conference and they had this book of all the people that were attending, and they asked for a photo and I was like, Oh, like the only photo I've got is like my wedding day. I tried to crop out my tiara and my husband, but it didn't work and I had to [00:07:00] basically take this slightly odd photo of me against a white backdrop and just hope that it would be okay.
But when I saw myself against all the other photos in the book, I was like, right, I really need to have a photo I can send off. So that is one aspect of it, but as I started building my business, I realized there's much more to it. So do you wanna talk us through like the headshot versus like the personal brand?
Vicki: Yeah. And by the way, that you are not alone in that. I hear a lot of people coming to me saying that they've suddenly panicked because they don't. I've actually had a neighbor turn up at my door because the guy he was about to feature in The Guardian and he was like, I've heard you're a photographer. I was like, oh my God.
I needed to do his shoot like there and then, cuz he had no photo other than a wedding photo. So you are not
Sophie: Okay. I feel a bit better about that. Yeah.
Vicki: You haven't knocked on someone's
Sophie: I haven't knocked on someone's door. No.
Vicki: So the difference between, as I say, cause I've been doing this quite a long time now. So when I started doing what I called then headshot, photography, personal branding wasn't even a term back then.
So make my sound sound really old then back in the day,
Sophie: Like in the
Vicki: So people just needed a headshot [00:08:00] because back then it was just, everyone just had their websites needed about me page. Instagram wasn't really a big, well, I don't think it was. Even around Facebook. You just needed your profile photo and that was it.
So people could get away with just having a few headshots. Now the whole online world has changed, so that's why personal branding is now a thing. We can't just get away. With just having a headshot. We need photos of us in action doing things, much more kind of lifestyle photos, which actually a lot of people are happier with because it's not your face filling the whole frame.
You can be, have a distance to it. So a lot of people are happier with those kind of photos. But yeah, it's definitely changed that. From people just needing a headshot. Now, we do need a lot more than that because when you're promoting something online, especially if you are the face of your business, i e you are a coach or a social media expert or something like that, you need photos yourself generally to be promoting what you're doing as well.
So you need a real variety of images.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, people can get a real feel for you, can't they, from the [00:09:00] type of photos that you choose to have. I think that's really interesting. I love looking at people's branding shoot photos cuz I think it gives me a real sense of are they more formal?
Are they more relaxed? Are they in nature? Are they a bit more posed like, you know, with like fingers up pointing at something so you can use them in more like, you know, social media posts. How, how do you kind of advise people to. Like, I think it's where when you start, you don't necessarily know exactly what you want.
How do you work out what kind of shoot you want?
Vicki: and, and you're so right in that. And I think a lot of the time when people think they have this sort of resistance to thinking, I don't want to put like this. Posed photo of me online, like, what's Jenny down the road gonna think? She follows me on Instagram. Do you know what I mean? So you . Yeah. Yeah. Like Rob that I went to school with is gonna
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicki: and you, because sometimes you might see other people's branding photos and they're a bit more kind of like a fashion shoe and that's not your bag.
And that the important thing with a branding shoe is you can make it yours. This isn't about you. something that you're not, I've had people before and they, they wear heels to the shoot and they're like, oh, [00:10:00] I can't really walk them. I'm like, do you ever wear heels? They're like, oh no, I hate them. I'm like them.
They should not be in your branding shoe. Like if you never wear heels, that should, if, if you wear heels all the time, then rock them. Yes, totally. But if you never wear them, don't try and be something that you are not. And I think a lot of us struggle with this, and they might be trying to put across what they think they should and a good photographer.
We'll ask you the right questions to kind of get out of you exactly what makes you, you, what your, what your personal brand is to try and figure out exactly what you want from your shoe, and that can, you know, come down to the location, what you wear, what time of day, the props that you use. You can get such a different look with all of those things.
Sophie: And I guess when someone's starting out, like at what point do you normally find people come to you to have a branding shoot? Because I mean, it's a bit chicken and egg, isn't it? Cause you're like, I want the photos to put on my website. But if you are literally starting your website for the first time, , you don't know necessarily what you need.
Like is there like a first shoot and then a maybe future shoot
Vicki: that's a [00:11:00] really good point. I mean, firstly, I would say, I don't think really you should have a website with just iPhone photos on. I think it looks when I've got the difference and when I show clients the difference, so I say, do you mind if I take a screen grab of your website before the shoot? And then we compare it to afterwards.
They're like, oh my God. I had no idea how unprofessional that looked. It's not that it just. Less formal. It's nothing to do with that because actually sometimes the branding one can look less formal, more like them, but it just doesn't, it doesn't elevate their brand. You can have the slickest website that shows everything.
If you've then got this, you know, crappy iPhone photo and extra offense, it's just gonna bring the whole thing down. So I would say you do at the bare minimum, need a few. Branding shots of yourself pepper through the website. Now a lot of photographers, like I do as well, I run mini branding days whereby you can have like a 25 minute shoot, but it's much more cost effective because I'm photographing five people through a morning.
So they're kind of all sharing the cost. So a lot of people when they're first start in the business, or if they're just dipping their toe into the water, [00:12:00] this is the first time they've ever had a, had a branding shoot, we'll do, we'll go for that. And then a year later, for example, they then book a full branding shoot when their business is more established and they need more images for social.
Sophie: Yeah. And I guess talking about that, like social media versus website or maybe as well, you know, having to use it like you say for like the Guardian or whatever. How, how do people come? Do they know exactly what they need? Like, or do you kind of guide them? Like, do you need to have an exact list of what you want before you do your branding?
Shoot.
Vicki: So the, and I always say this to clients, I am happy to work with you exactly as you want. So I have some regular clients that will come to me, they know their brand inside out. They will literally send me a lot, a list of like 40 shots that we need to get with tick marks next to. We will just go through ticking them off, right?
Very happy to work in that way. If someone is very, very clear on their brand, I have other clients that come to me and in our clarity call, they say, this is not my zone of genius. At all. I have no clue what to do, [00:13:00] and I'm like, I'm happy to hold your hand through the whole process. So I will try and draw out of you what your personal ground is, what you stand for.
We then decide on a location, and then often when people come to the shoot itself, I have so many people say to me, but all of the women you photograph are so confident and they seem to know how to pose. I'm like, no, no, no. They're exactly like you. They all think the same thing too. But a good photographer will work with you.
So yeah, you do come across looking self-assured and they will pose you. So we were laughing just before we went on sofa, aren't we? That, I always joke with people that I pose them within an inch of their lives, so it's like everything's on them.
Like, oh, now just relax. And all my photos always look really natural and joyful, but I'm making sure that I pose them in a way that's really flattering that we get the right light and that they're gonna be really happy with. And you don't, you're not a model. I mean, you might be Sophie, I don't know,
Sophie: Hey, how rude
Vicki: But no, I don't photograph models, right?
So I always say to people, you're not a model. Why would you know how to pose? [00:14:00] Nobody does. So that's my job. I show you how to pose. So a good photographer will do that for you?
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And I, I am someone who needs a lot of direction and like double chin and you know, rolling shoulders back and kind of the, you end up with a bit of a, like a frozen smile some or doesn't meet your eyes sometimes. And I think finding a good photographer who can. You know, a coach you in like how to get rid of that double chin and like, it's just a few tweaks.
It's like a, you know, head slightly to the left. Like you're not doing any like crazy model poses. It's more about like just making you look like the best you to kind of capture it, isn't it like,
Vicki: When we talk about posing, I'm not sort of like hand on hip, hand on head, you know, we're not talking that kind of posing. We're talking about the tiny little.
Shifts that just make a big difference. So I'm regularly like just moving someone's face around because it's much flat, more flattering. Like I would say 90% of the women I photograph, like you said, are worried about double chins, so they're not sure whether to put their chips. So I always give advice on that.[00:15:00]
And i e we all sit in a chair and slump all of us. I even need to say to yoga and plates, teachers sit up straight because we just look so much
Sophie: Engage your call
Vicki: I'm the expert. So, but everyone has to, we all slump and it doesn't look good. Or we sort of sit in a chair and we fall back into it.
And that's why so often you might see photos that someone's just snapped on a night out and you're like, oh my God, that looks awful. Because you're not posting the right way. They might be shooting up on you or anything. Whereas a good photographer will know how to make you look your absolute best and it's not making you look something that you are not, this isn't.
Using Photoshop to do tricks and make you skinnier or longer hair or anything. This is about just using what you've got, but making you look the absolute best that you can.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, like it's partly for your customers, isn't it? To give. My confidence in your business and your brand. I especially think, for me anyway, for small businesses, when people are looking to work with [00:16:00] us, we have to build their trust really quickly. We don't have that kind of advantage that bigger companies have where they, you know, that they're a big company.
If you had an issue, you know, it would be sorted. Cause they're a big company. Like with small businesses, we need to build trust with our customers. And I think that is one way of like showing them that we are. We're a business. This is not a, a little hobby on the side. This is a business and we have you know, professional professional image, but I also think, you know, we are.
Looking at things like collaborations with other businesses. Like if I had someone on the podcast and they didn't have a professional headshot to send me to for all my marketing, and they just sent me like a picture of them on a night out, that would be really difficult for me because that doesn't really reflect well on my brand either.
Like, where have I found this person? Are they really an expert in what they're talking about? And like
Vicki: just got outta head.
Sophie: be like that. Exactly. They're fine. I mean, unless, I guess I was promo, I don't know, doing something about nightlife, but like, I think it's about more than just looking professional, isn't it?
It kind of ins, it gives [00:17:00] people a shortcut to like trusting you and building that trust.
Vicki: you're so right. It just yeah, it just shows that you take yourself seriously, but it's not, I mean, just going, just going back to your point there about not have, I've, it's really sad. I've had women come to me and they've said, I've had opportunities in the past couple of years to go on people's podcasts or maybe have an article in the press.
Speak at something and they've had to turn it down because they think, oh, I haven't got the photos and I can't send in just an iPhone photo. And that is so sad. So, so what happens when you have these amazing branding photos at your fingertips is your confidence grows. Might then start pitching yourself as a guest on a podcast or getting an article in a magazine. It just gives you that inner confidence to be able to put yourself out there.
Sophie: And if like me, you feel like you're not very photogenic and you don't really like having your photo taken and actually being visible on your social media feels really uncomfortable even taking selfies, like you just think, oh God, I don't wanna put another, like selfie up. It never looks good.
I actually found having photos done in a branding shoot. A way to [00:18:00] do that and build my confidence because like they're edited. You get loads to choose from you. You know, you can choose the ones that you feel reflect you in like the absolute best way.
And so when you are then choosing a photo, you're choosing from five brilliant photos of you, not like five different selfies that you are not sure about any single one of them.
Vicki: it's so true. And you've also had it kind of filtered. When I say filtered, I don't mean through a camera filter, I mean filtered through your photographer, so you've had an expert eye on it. So that photographer has already been through your shoe, called those images, picked out the absolute best ones, and then you are picking the best ones from that.
So you've already had someone. Give it the green light almost and say, yes, these, these look great. This shows you at your absolute best. So that just gives you the confidence as, as well to put it out there.
Sophie: And then in terms of, I've seen quite a lot of different styles, I guess, of branding, personal branding, so there's the like, really. You know, like in the words very much about, like more of a feel necessarily. [00:19:00] Then there's the ones that are a bit more like, you know, sitting at a laptop and kind of like, this is me working or holding my phone.
Or I guess like Pilates, you know, like doing a Pilates post type thing. And then there's the ones that are very much like pointing into thin air or you know, where you're very much planning to use.
Vicki: Yes,
Sophie: a social media post? Probably. It's not really gonna be a website one, I don't imagine. Or maybe it would
Vicki: you could. Yeah. With courses, it works
Sophie: with courses.
Yeah, that's true. With courses. Are they three different branding shoots or like how do you decide which one to go for? Do you know what I mean? Cuz I can see the benefits of all three.
Vicki: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I would say there's more you can add to that as well, to be honest. But it will really depend, you know, that that's where a photographer should work with you. And so I send a questionnaire first and try and really get under the skin of what their brand is, what they're into. Who they're appealing to.
And then we have a chat as well, so I can actually see them face to face, see what they're like. And sometimes it's me guiding them. Like I say, sometimes they have a really clear [00:20:00] idea of exactly what they want. I, in an ideal world, you try and incorporate some of those things cuz you don't want 50 photos of you on a laptop
You know that's not,
Sophie: exactly. Yeah. I think it's tricky as well. I'm almost a bit jealous of the Pilates teachers and stuff cuz they can get the more business ones, but then the more action ones, as a service business, it's kind of. Just me . So there's only so many ways I considered a laptop or a hold of cup of tea or and that sort of thing.
Like I think the, do you know actually who I'm really jealous of the nutritionist cuz they get to like, pose with food and
Vicki: And florist.
Sophie: Flo. Oh, Floris, yes. Now I'm really jealous. Actually, that's a really good point. Product businesses. So as we kind of, we've talked a lot, lot about, you know, prepping for your personal branding shoot.
And we are not excluding product businesses out of this, are we? It's just a different type of shoot
Vicki: I wouldn't even say it's a different type of shoot. So product businesses come to me or sometimes they don't come to me, but we start having a chat. I find [00:21:00] them
Sophie: dig them out. Exactly,
Vicki: turn up at their
Sophie: exactly where your branding shoot.
Vicki: But like I just ran my retreat last week and there were at least three of the women there that run product businesses, and I think when they booked one, they were thinking, oh, do I really need this?
Do I need to be visible? Can't I just show my beautiful products? But the thing is, the online world is so saturated now. There are so many product based businesses and it's so easy for us just to go. To big companies. So if we are gonna invest in a small company that we might be paying more for the products, but we're really invested in them.
We wanna see who's making those products. We wanna buy into your story. So for example, if I go to someone's Instagram feed, they follow me and I look down. First thing I'm looking for is for a photo of them. Cause I wanna engage with that person. I want to know the person behind the business. And I find it so frustrating.
If I'm stro scrolling, all I can see is products. I don't know who you know, and I go onto their website, still can't find who they are. I know it's a cliche, but people do buy from [00:22:00] people, right? Even if you're product based, yes, I know you want your products to sell themselves, but you need to show them a little bit about your why.
That's what people buy into. And you can't do that if you're in hid.
Sophie: absolutely. And I think even more so if you make your products as well, there's nothing more engaging than seeing someone making them . It's quite subliminal, isn't it? Like, but just you don't have to say, these are handmade. I make them myself. If there are pitches there of you literally making them like, and that sort of thing.
I can think of a few companies actually that I've bought from where the products are so beautiful and they are more expensive because they're handmade and because of that time and care and love that's gone into them. But often you don't necessarily know that if you just see a picture of the
Vicki: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. And Instagram is so set up for that now where you can create gorgeous reels of yourself making them. And you don't have to talk at camera, it can just be you making them. And it might just be if, you know, some people are too scared just to even show their hands.
They're like, oh, so just start like that. Start with your hands and your voice and then [00:23:00] gradually, you know, it's not, being visible isn't about doing things that feel like really out of our comfort zone because we all set up businesses. To, to help people and to feel good for us to fit in with our lives.
And there's no point doing things that are really uncomfortable and risky to us because that's when people end up going outta business because it just doesn't align with them, their personality or their values. But I still will say to people just in, you know, gently push yourself outta your comfort zone.
And whenever you do things, whenever I've done things in my. . After a while, it then feels totally natural. You suddenly realize actually the whole world isn't staring at you and pointing and laughing,
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicki: it's actually fine. This is safe for me and I now feel comfortable. But it's just taking those little baby steps.
Sophie: Oh my gosh. I remember the first time I like spoke on Instagram stories. I felt like such an idiot. And I think like over, I think it is obviously more common now, you know, with Instagram pushing videos so much more. You don't feel like you're the only one. But I definitely was actually [00:24:00] more that fear of friends and family
Vicki: Yeah, same Anna, that's
Sophie: kind of, and I always remember like someone talking about. As to pass in comment about someone else saying like, oh, like talking on their stories. It was so cringey and you know, and it's like that flippant comment like would sat in my stomach for like
Vicki: Oh
Sophie: and months and months. Like worrying.
Vicki: pleased you said that. We were talking about this last week and saying, cuz I've heard that numerous times, right? When women tear down other women, it's really not nice. And they'll be like, oh my God, who does she think she's talking all the time in her stories, you know, as though actually she's so confident.
Like she thinks she's all that. But actually what I, and and I'm exactly like you, that then made. not do it for years. I've actually only been talking on stories probably for like 18 months or so. Very happy doing my podcast and posting photos. But that was just out of my comfort zone for exactly that reason, because I'd heard other women talking about other business owners saying that.
And then I realized I always do a lot of mindset work in that. And I realized that actually that's saying so much [00:25:00] more about that person saying it than it is about the person doing it. So now if I ever hear that, in fact it was. A few months ago I heard someone saying exactly that and I gave them a little bit of a piece of my mind.
I was just like, that took that woman so much. You know, so much bravery to do that. And you know, what is, you know, what is it that, that you are like afraid of or jealous of? What is it, what trigger, why did that trigger you? And you have to sometimes look at advice, sometimes feel that comparison artist, cuz I've looked at someone else, I'm like, oh.
I have to then think what, what is it that I want that they've got? Or what is it triggering in myself that I don't like in myself? Sorry, I've gone all a bit deep there, but
Sophie: no, I'm totally with you. And I think that's the thing though, like, it is deep. I remember like the first few years in business, often people would say to me oh, you know, how's it going? And I would just look at them and , it's just, it's so much like on a, on like a personal mind's, like self-development, Pete, like it's so.
Like, it's so hard going into that Yik selling your [00:26:00] selling yourself. Like not in a prostitution sense, but like you, you put yourself out there, you are so vulnerable when you are out there saying, like, even now I feel it. Like I've just launched my course and it's the first time I've done a course for this business.
And , it's so, you're so vulnerable. Like you're going out there and saying like, this is what I offer, like this is how I think I could help you. And like, and there's always that fear isn't there? Like, what if it doesn't land well? Or what if people don't want it? And like that rejection and like dealing with feelings of failure, like it's all tied up.
I think in that visibility, like whether it's like you and your face or you and like even just putting your business out there
Vicki: It takes so much, it's so layered. There are so many layers to, like you say which is why I'm fascinated in it because it brings in all the mindset stuff that I'm interested in as well. But yeah, it is so layered, but it takes so much courage. And don't get me wrong, there are days when I look at my friends who I used to work with and they're now like, you know, Sea level, [00:27:00] really important jobs.
I look at themselves instead, they go, oh, it must be so easy for you. And they're like, what? And I'm like, you don't have to put yourself out there like you put yourself out there, but it's just in a company, I have to put myself out there where anyone can see it. You know, Becky from school can see it, anyone can see it.
And it's scary some days, you know? And we all have better days than others. And I totally get that. It's, and that's why it's not for everyone. It takes so much bravery and courage to run your
Sophie: bravery. I do remember once, I think, my husband made a flippant comment about , not, not that it wasn't hard running your own business, but it was something about well just put it out there. Just like tell people it's what you offer. And I just remember saying to him, how would you feel if every single piece of work you did was out there in the public domain?
For everyone to judge every, like every new. Project you took on every new thing that you did is out there for ev all consumption, like everyone to look at and see what you're doing. Like I think we sometimes underestimate ourselves and how like much we do as our own businesses and how like far we push ourselves.
Vicki: And I [00:28:00] think, you know, and that's why I'm very much in the school of thought is just be a bit gentle to yourself. I'm not saying don't ever do anything, but there's also some coaches and experts that are out there going, Jess, do it. You know, dance on rails, do this, do that. And for some people, that is awful.
You know, that's like their worst nightmare. So my advice is don't do anything that does feel horribly uncomfortable, and you can build a personal brand for yourself without. You know, talking live on Instagram and Facebook every day. You absolutely can. And it's about finding the ways to be visible that work for you.
But even if you decide, actually blogging is my thing, I'm a really good writer. Or maybe podcasting's your thing or you know, you still do, you know, I know it sounds like I'm. I'm trying to sell what I do, but you still need the photos to go with it. So at the very least, showing, like you were saying, it does feel safer to show professional branding photos.
So whatever it is that you find, the way that you find to be visible, that feels comfortable having those branding photos alongside it, and that's what I did for years. I'm only stepping out into [00:29:00] talking on camera, but for years I just did my podcasting, my blogging and sharing photos, and that's worked very well for me.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And I was saying when we spoke before, like on my Instagram, my face, when I put my face on a post, it always does better than other posts. But when I put my branded photos out there, they always do like the best, best. Like people like the aesthetic, they like, I think the, they appreciate the fact that those photos are, have taken that time and that effort and that kind of professionalism to kind of do.
And like I always get a great.
Vicki: and I think it's, I think it sort of flipped Instagram. I think a few years ago it was all professional photos. Now we're so used to seeing, you know, just iPhone, you know, just a, a screen grab of a video that actually branding photos really stand out and kind of stop the scroll a bit more.
But also like yourself, if you are. Talking on camera and that all the time. It's like when you see a friend and all, you've only ever seen there like, you know, just round the house and you've got, and then you see all dressed.[00:30:00]
Sophie: That is exactly it. People comment on those brand aphasias. I'm like, wow. like, yeah, I know. I don't like, I'm none. My stories guys.
Vicki: But isn't that lovely though, to have, you know, and I think people love seeing both. So if you were only ever sharing that, that polished image, they wouldn't know any different. But if you're then sharing like, oh God, I've just done the school run and la la la and then look at me at my branding shoot. So yeah, it stands out.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess a question some people might be thinking is, if Instagram is pushing so hard towards reels, do we still need these branded photos or kind
Vicki: Yeah, so I mean, I see the, I mean, you can, I mean, with the shoots, for example, like I regularly on my Instagram page will show say eight shots from a shoot within a reel. But with a branding shoot you don't wanna use, so one, one more device is don't use up all your branding photos. Occasionally people have a shoot with me and they post like 10 photos, like three different outfits.
I'm like, no, save them, pepper them through the year. Waste it all at once. So I wouldn't advise doing that with your branding photos. But how it's [00:31:00] brilliant is with the, you can use it with the cover image. So I've got some clients that have used like really cool graphics for all of their images and they're just use, you know, and you can reuse them then because the graphic will be different.
What you're saying is different and you've just got, but it makes such a difference. I'm actually about to post a reel to show she had really cool graphics anyway, but was just using iPhone photos and then the difference bringing in the branding shots just into those graphics just elevated her whole feed.
Sophie: So I guess for the last couple of questions, I think we should probably address some of those things that really hold people back and maybe are a little bit, little bit practical, but also a little bit mindset as well.
So we talked a little bit about the whole, like, I'm not photogenic, I don't take a good photo, and how actually photographers are incredibly experienced or you should find a photographer. That's incredible experience in helping you with that. But I think as well also especially I work with a lot of mums.
We are not necessarily, we were, and like we were saying, you know, we started our business. Postnatally, like literally within the first like year of having a baby. We don't necessarily [00:32:00] look exactly how we would want to look if we were booking like a professional shoot. They might have hairy, hairy growth at like, you know, and you know, and being not feeling like you're at the weight you want to be at or baby your clothes just don't feel quite right at the moment.
Like, how do you, how do you kind of talk to clients who are in that space?
Vicki: Yeah. So if I had, if I had a pound Sophie for every time that
Sophie: your garden office earlier.
Vicki: Exactly. I've had it 10 years ago. Honestly, like when I go to networking dues, the amount of women that go, oh, I'm so desperate to book a branding shoot with you, but I just need to lose another half a stone. Right. And what I was, I mean that's, again, that's, there's a lot that to unpack there.
This doesn't sound very American by saying that, but there's a lot going on.
Sophie: journey.
Vicki: yeah, exactly. Let's reach out. But there is quite a lot to unpack there because it's not just as, you know, that's a proper mindset block something is stopping them do it, but doing do, booking that shoe, there's a few things I can say.
Firstly, to when I, whenever I talk to people about branding shoot, and they're like, I need, you know, I haven't [00:33:00] got this. I need to lose weight. I always say, it's not about you actually, why do you run your business? And they're like, well, I'm trying to help people do this. I'm helping people do this. Okay, it's about them.
So anything to do with showing up online, then if you're not doing it, you're serving less people. So if you wanna help those people, , you've gotta put your big girl pencils on and do it. So, and the other thing is, is so would you not book with someone because you're looking at them thinking, oh, she needs to lose half a stone.
Like you just wouldn't, would you? You would never think. And actually, if anything, so what I always tell myself when I feel like I need to lose a bit weight, I think actually I'm probably a little bit more approachable. Like people are like, oh, good, Rick's not a size.
Sophie: Yeah, she's normal.
Vicki: sh . I feel like I can have a shoot with her cause she looks pretty normal.
So actually why would I not put myself out there? We, we see our friends, we see our family all the time. So it is, you know, when we suddenly think, oh actually I'm not gonna show myself to a stranger. It's like, well, if I saw them in the street or a network, you do. They're gonna see me. And what I would say, I [00:34:00] always, I have a question on my questionnaire which says, is there anything you're a bit insecure about that I need to.
And I do that because people used to come to the shoot and the first thing they'd start telling me is all the things they don't like about themselves, which is not putting them in the right frame of mind to have the shoot anyway. So I'm like, let's get this over and done with first. But that is the time because sometimes.
People are very body positive and I need to know if actually I stand for pos, you know, I wanna stand there with my hands on my hips. I wanna show everything. Or actually I'm carrying another stone after having my baby. I'd kind of rather not show that. Great, tell your photographer because they, they're not a mind reader.
They don't know how you feel about it. They might assume you are totally proud of your body and really wanna show it off. So just be really honest about how you feel. This isn't about hiding where it's. being confident so that, you know, the photographer knows where you are at. And they will put you in, in poses that, you know, perhaps are more flattering.
But yeah, I think, I think it comes down to just thinking you know, not making it about you and making it about the people you're trying to [00:35:00] help and they're not gonna judge you.
Sophie: No. And actually if you are like on your grid, you know, if you are taking iPhone photos and on your grid and taking selfies and on your stories, then they're already seeing you , like it's already there. Like, it's just, it feels funny, doesn't it though? Like, I think it's that. Oh, I'm gonna wait to spend the money, isn't it like I'll wait to spend the money until I'm like, it's perfect.
And actually, you know, by the time, you know, you might get pregnant again or you might, you know, like it, there's so many things in the the
Vicki: I'm gonna lose half a stone for 10 years. You know, it's not happened.
Sophie: endless. Yeah.
Vicki: So by saying that, it's like, yeah, this can just carry on for some time.
Sophie: Yeah, and actually, I mean, baby don't report me to anyone legal, but I may have four certain photo shoots bought clothes and worn them for the shoot and taken them back because you are literally in them for like, like [00:36:00] minutes. Like I'm not minutes. But you know, you're not wearing them out anywhere. You are not actually kind of, you know, using them.
You're literally
Vicki: You would be very surprised by the amount of women that turn up with labels in the
Sophie: I can imagine.
Vicki: you're not alone in that.
Sophie: I just think if you are, you know, if money is. You can't go and splash out. You might wanna feel like you're really, really confident. And I think actually some new clothes would really help that, you know, because I'm actually, me, I basically live in leggings and I would like to feel a bit more confident and have some nice clothes for the shoot, but you can't necessarily go out and spend a few hundred pounds.
on a whole new wardrobe. Cause you want a few changes of clothes maybe. And you know, it's not just one outfit. That is definitely a way around it. I mean, I don't think it's necessarily
Vicki: on my website cuz I might
Sophie: say it's not the most ethical slash legal, but I do think sometimes we have to do things a little bit more practical.
And if that's holding you back, like from your whole business of having the shoot, then like, I think like work around it in that way.
Vicki: Yes, definitely. Well, yes, I'm,
Sophie: get
Vicki: gonna, I'm not gonna put it in
Sophie: now. . Yeah.
Vicki: but also, you know, with clothing [00:37:00] you know, I always encourage people to have clothing that works with their branding and sometimes they don't necessarily have the right colors in their outfit and everything else. So some, sometimes it is worth raiding friends wardrobes as well.
A lot of people do that. They will borrow like a really
Sophie: ethical. Yeah.
Vicki: So they'll borrow like a really nice blazer from a friend that they send them in and people are always willing to help, right? So if you're like, look, I need some, I need some clothes, these kind of colors, this is what I'm looking for.
There's always people that are happy to help you out as well.
Sophie: Yeah. And generally do you say just wear whatever as long as it's comfortable or are you like, how does pattern go down and that sort of
Vicki: So I always give I've got how to prepare, guide so that gives all the dos and don'ts things that people wouldn't necessarily have thought about. But I'm also a big believer and I'm never gonna tell, you know, people are like, what do I wear? And I'm like, I need to get to know you first. Cause if I tell you to turn up in a red, you know, power suit, and actually you are like Miss Russ.
Wanna shoot down the woods, that is not gonna work. So, of course I can't tell you what to wear because I want it to be you. But I, I will work again. It, [00:38:00] it goes with, some clients know exactly what they wanna wear. Others will be sending me photos of their outfits on their bed, and we'll be like, okay, that with that, you know, they really want some more help with it.
And I always say, bring along one or two more outfits that you might, you know, then you need, and then we can choose what works best with the different backgrounds.
Sophie: and I always think as well like looking on the photographer's past shoot is really helpful as well for inspiration, isn't it? Like, you know, oh, that location, oh, that. Kind of combination worked quite well. And also Pinterest is really
Vicki: Yes. Oh
Sophie: inspo, isn't it? Like getting ideas. Brilliant.
Well, thank you so much. So we've covered loads and loads
Vicki: We have.
Sophie: Tips and information there. So at the end of every episode though, I ask my guest, what's the one thing you would recommend doing today?
Vicki: So the one thing I'm gonna say is to put, like we talked about, not doing anything too risk or uncomfortable, but I want you to just put yourself very slightly out your comfort zone and that will be different for everyone. So if you don't have a photo of your, your About me page. Do that. It might be get a headshot session book so [00:39:00] you can get some nice photos.
Or if you're already being really visible, maybe it's like me, I'm just finding my way on talking to cameras, so maybe it's actually I'm gonna post a reel with me talking in it. So it's just the next step. Do something today to be visible in a way that feels very slightly uncomfortable for you. Cuz before long, it'll feel totally natural.
Sophie: Yeah. And then you'll be on to the next thing. And the next
Vicki: And then, whoa.
Sophie: World domination. Exactly. Then you'll be starting a podcast like US Amazing. Thank you so much. So if you have loved all of Vicky's tips today and want to hear more, the best way is to follow her over on Instagram and that is at Vicky nights dot branding.
I will put the link in the show notes so you can click over and you'll find the link to her website and everything like that. Do you put your dates for your branding shoots and that sort of thing on your Instagram or they on your website?
Vicki: Yeah, just on my, if they click through to my website, everything is on.
Sophie: Fabulous. Thank you so much, Vicky. That's absolutely brilliant.
Vicki: Oh, thank you, Sophie. It's [00:40:00] been a joy as always. When it, when I see
Sophie: Absolutely. It's been a lovely 45 minutes.
Vicki: it has,
Thank you so much for joining me this week before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive new episodes, right when they're released. And if you ever enjoyed these podcast episodes, I'd really love to ask you to leave a review in apple podcasts reviews are one of the major ways that apple ranks their podcasts, and it only takes a few seconds, but really does make a massive difference to new people.
Finding me. Thank you again for joining me, Sophie, in this episode of growing pains, see you next time.
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