Powerful storytelling to authentically market your business and sell without the BS with Colette McBeth

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What’s this episode about?

Former BBC news correspondent and author turned Storytelling and messaging mentor Colette McBeth joins Sophie in this episode all about how to effectively use storytelling to connect and convert clients in a way that feels easy, aligned and empowering.

In this episode we cover:

Here's what you can expect from this episode:

💡 Discover why storytelling is essential for building connection and engaging your audience. 

💡 Uncover the power of your own story and how to incorporate it into your messaging. 

💡 Learn how to craft relatable stories that resonate with your ideal clients that are 'brain friendly' and so much easier than content pillars. 

💡 Find out how to make your offers and services more desirable through storytelling.

Plus, we talk about: 

🦁 Ads vs organic - do you need both?

🦁 Behind the scenes: How Colette has used ads to grow her business (inc when she thought she'd lost £5k!).

🦁 Where to start if you want to use the power of stories in your business

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INTRODUCING… COLETTE MCBETH

Colette McBeth is the trusted storytelling and messaging mentor to 100s of women who want to reach more people, more powerfully without ever pretending to be someone they're not.

She's also the author of 4 thrillers that have been published all over the world and she spent 10 years as a BBC TV news and political correspondent.

If you want to find out more about Colette, the best place is:

In her Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bigvisibilitylounge

On Instagram: www.instagram.com/colettemcbethstorytelling

Via her core story blueprint: https://colette-mcbeth.mykajabi.com/the-story-club

If you enjoyed the podcast, here are some ways you can be a part of my world:

Social:

Love Instagram? Click here to watch a video I made on the Warm audience trap (hint, it's something almost every client struggles with!)More of a LinkedIn fan? I'm there too! Come and follow me here: Sophie Griffiths

Free Resource:

Ready to grow an audience of people who WANT you to sell to them? Radical idea I know, but it shouldn’t be! Click here to get access to my step by step guide to using simple, effective ads to build & nurture a community of superfans,

Work together:

Ready to build an audience of superfans who are excited and ready to buy from you?
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Got questions?

DM me on Insta or LinkedIn
Email me here: hello@sophiegriffiths.co

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Read the transcript:

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors. LHM 004: Colette === [00:00:00] hello, and welcome to Lion Hearted Marketing. This is a podcast for bold businesses who are ready to go from a slightly scattergun marketing approach to connecting everything they're doing to create joyful, repeatable customer journeys, that build connection and consistently convert new clients. That's called a funnel. If you fancy. If you have that nagging feeling, you should have more of a grasp on your marketing, more of a plan, more of a system to support your pretty successful business. You're in the right place. This isn't about trying lows and new strategies. It's about taking what you've got and making the most of it. I'm Sophie your host. Self-confessed tea superfan marketing strategist and funnels or joyful journeys, as I like to call them, demystifier. Join me every Tuesday for my Lion hearted approach to marketing. To help you navigate those big moves, stay focused on your goals and ultimately take your business to the next level. Let's jump in to today's episode. Sophie: Hello and welcome to the Lion Hearted Marketing Podcast. So [00:01:00] today I'm here with my guest, Colette Macbeth. Colette is a trusted storytelling and messaging mentor to hundreds of women who want to reach more people more powerfully without ever having to pretend they're someone they're not. She's also the author of four thrillers. I've been published all over the world and she spent 10 years as a, B B, C, TV news and political correspondent. If you follow me on Instagram or have listened to episode one you might already know that I have worked with Colette more recently on the rebrand, but you might not also know that I was in the very first cohort of her now incredibly epic signature program be seen just literally as I was coming back to work. After having Ottley in Covid. And the reason that I joined was I'd never heard of her. I had never come across it before at all. Someone mentioned her name in a Facebook group that I was in and said, oh, my friend's starting this new course about about like sorting your visibility out and like your messaging. And I went onto her Instagram and I binged four videos that she had [00:02:00] created about what she was doing. And then I just signed up right there and then so that is a real testament to her own. Storytelling ability. She's incredible at helping me unravel the noise in my head and create really compelling messages that use stories at the heart which just makes it so much more relatable. And in this story episode, that is exactly what we're gonna explore. We're gonna be talking about storytelling, both from a perspective of uncovering your own story and then building it into your messaging and building your whole business around that. So Colette, lovely to. Colette: Oh, thank you for the amazing introduction and yes, I do remember getting that email, that message from you on Instagram and I was like, who is this woman that I've spoken to? Sophie: I think it just shows, doesn't it? Like you just never know who's watching and sometimes it takes like months and years for people to convert. Other times it can just be that like, yep, she's the one for me. Colette: Yeah. Sophie: Yeah. Okay. So before we jump in, tell us a little bit more [00:03:00] about yourself. Colette: So I'm Colette. I spent a long time, as you said, at the bbc not in the glamorous role. I was the person who was kind of freezing their backside off at court or in a field or whatever, reporting live on the news. And then I went off and wrote lots of books, actually got quite a dark mind. You might be surprised to hear. So, Sophie: Oh. Colette: Yes, you must. Yeah. So did kind of unspeakable things to quite a lot of people which is really good to Sophie: Is that quite cathartic? Yeah, Colette: Yeah. Careful you might end up in Sophie: exactly. Like, oh, she loves familiar. Colette: And I will go back to writing books. In fact, my agent has been waiting on a book for about two years from me. But I just, you know what? I actually got fed up of being in my room talking to my characters, and I really missed helping other people tell their stories. And funnily enough, I was like, I wanna get out my office. I'm gonna set out my own business. I'm gonna work with, you [00:04:00] know, coaches, women, amazing women, and then Covid hit Sophie: Oh my God. Yeah. Colette: my office. Yeah. But I live by the sea in Hove, so you probably see me a lot on the beach. Love having a glass of rose with my friends in the summer. I have got three kids and a dog called Nelly, and yeah, life's pretty busy. Sophie: Yeah, it's busy. And also you like cold swimming as well, don't you? You and I have both kind of gone through a bit of a journey with thinking it wasn't something that we would be able to do and now being like quite into it. Colette: I was in at the weekend and I came back and my husband was like, was it cold? And I was like, well, for, for you maybe. But now that I'm so accustomed to. Sophie: I know now I'm actually a bit, I literally had the same story, like conversation with my husband, cuz I do it in a pond with Lake, and it warms up quite quickly as well, because it's not that the undercurrent. So I was like, oh, yeah, it was fine, but like 18 degrees and I wasn't really, like, I didn't really get the high afterwards, like the adrenaline rush, [00:05:00] it's like that's the addictive bit , they're chemicals afterwards, so, Colette: Yeah. Just on that note, you know, sea swimming and probably cold water swimming was probably something as you just mentioned, that neither of us had done before. And the reason that I kind of went for it was like, I don't wanna be one of those people who want to do something but are held back by their fear of the cold. And so I kind of made it my mission last year to just go for it. And I think the same is true a lot in business as well, isn't it? Sophie: Oh my gosh. So true. And often I find myself, when I start doing stuff like that in my personal life, it's because I'm trying to stretch myself in some way and like, I'm like, come on, push yourself outside of your comfort zone. I mean, like a lot of people say to me , oh, do you like the cold water? I'm like, no, I don't take cold showers. Like I don't go to pool on holiday if it's cold. Like I have absolutely no interest in cold water. And that's why it was such a stretch for me, but I find doing stuff like that then helps me in my business also push myself as well. I think it's like I can do hard things. That's fine. Colette: I [00:06:00] totally agree. I totally agree. So everybody needs to get cold Sophie: So just go and get in a cold pull. Exactly. Okay, fab. So quick question before we get started. If you go to a restaurant and you could only choose a starter or a pudding, what would you choose? Colette: Yeah, I might get a bit of hate for this, but I'd probably choose a starter purely because I don't eat gluten or dairy. I'm one of those annoying people, and puddings are very limited. Sophie: yeah. You'd be eating fruit, wouldn't you? Yeah. What would you, what would your favorite star to be? Colette: Oh, something with goats cheese and beetroot or, yeah, warm goats cheese and beetroot. That would be really nice with Sophie: Yeah. I, I do, you know, I haven't had beere for ages. Then my mom had it last weekend with like a walnut feta salad. It was really good. I thought, oh, I do actually quite like beetroot. Okay, right. Let's start talking stories. So, bigger picture, let's start putting it into a bit of context here. Like, why are we talking about stories in business? Are we talking about our own stories? Are we talking about the story of how we started our [00:07:00] business? Like why do people come to you thinking that they need to start talking about stories? Colette: Yeah. Well, it is twofold actually. A lot of people. Intuitively, they just know that they've got a story to tell. You know, I get, I get a lot of dms. It's like I feel like I've got a story. I know I've gotta get it out, but I dunno how to get it out. Quite often that is the story of how they got themselves through something quite tough that is now what they're helping their clients with. Or they wanna bring it to the world and they know it's powerful. But there's quite a lot that goes on there. So they're like, oh, but you know, I don't know what's gonna resonate with my audience. I don't wanna share things that feel a little bit like washing my dirty, dirty laundry in public. And sometimes they just don't wanna liable other people You. Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's for legal reasons. Yeah. Colette: Yeah. And then the other reason is that, you know, we all know that we have this amazing stuff going on, right? Whether it's a [00:08:00] product, business, or a coaching business, or you are selling, you know, any other kind of service-based business, but the, what I would call the bridge between you and your people is the communication, right? How do you actually talk about. What you're doing, how do you talk about why it matters and, and ultimately, let's face it, how do you make sales, right? Because you can give so much free content, but the, when people really get a transformation with you is when they're gonna work with you. And so the people I work with oftentimes they've tried a lot of other things. They've been in other programs, they've found it, set them back more than it's pushed them forward because it's making them, or asking them to be the someone that they're not. Sophie: Yeah, Colette: You know, and, and so they begin to tell themselves a story that what is required of them to be a success is to do something that doesn't actually feel good to them. Sophie: Mm. Colette: And so the storytelling, this kind of like built in. [00:09:00] Authenticity in the storytelling really appeals to them. And I'm gonna say as well, most of the people I work with do not like selling to people. Sophie: Mm, yeah, I can, I can totally see that. And the storytelling is an amazing way to, to take the edge off that, isn't it? Colette: Well there's a really interesting thing and, and one of the exercises I do I have a corporate course as well, but I do it with my own clients. It's like, think about where the desire is actually built. The desire is not built when we tell people to come in or we tell people, you know, this is what you need. Right. You know, I, I'm, I've got sleepless nights. Oh my goodness. You need this, you know, this herbal supplement. That's not how the desire is built and the therefore, it's not really how the sales are created. The desire is built. When you show people that you really see them and understand their current predicament, you even understand what things they've done before that haven't worked, what things they hate doing, right? And then [00:10:00] show them a way out of that. What if you do those kind of two things that I spoke about? Now you've got my attention. Now I want to know what it is that you've got an offer. And so I'm really keen, and that's when I talk about selling without selling. It's like that's where we get the buy-in. Sophie: , some brands do it so well, don't they? Like you see brands who really understand that and kind of bring you on that journey and other brands that you'll know, you just get, feel like you just get sold, like the end product the whole time. Like it's just like it's the best. It's the best, it's the best, but there's no understanding behind it of like, but it's not the best for me because I don't like that. And. And kind of overcoming those objections naturally, isn't it? Through the story? Colette: Yeah, and the reason why like for a lot of people it doesn't feel good is because you wouldn't do that in real life. Like you wouldn't go to. And only speak to people when you feel that, you know, you might get something from them. Right? So when we do that on social media in our content, no wonder it doesn't feel good if you're not that kind of person. Right? So actually to kind of get to know your people through that [00:11:00] messaging and you know, we can talk a lot about how. We can build this sort of power into the story by reflecting back what people are going through. So they see themselves in the story, and then it's like, oh, you know me, right? Tell me more. Sophie: Yeah. So when we talk about stories and using them for our business, I'm sure lots of people say, But my, my life is so boring. Like I don't have a story to tell. Like obviously you've got those people, like you say, who've had that transformation. They've got this like amazing story and they just need to help craft it. But I imagine also a lot of people are like, well, I just kind of went into marketing, after I went to uni and then I had kids, and now I'm just , I haven't really got a story or a reason I'm doing it. Like how do I build a compelling story from there? Colette: Yeah, I'm always like, yes, more boring. The better. Sophie: Give me mundane any day of the week. Colette: Yeah, listen, we're not writing Hollywood here and, and actually, you know, if I was [00:12:00] to help people reframe that, Sure. If you're writing a novel, you know, you're writing a kind of, I've, I escape this like, Grizzly bear and he tore off half my arm, and then I had to get out of the mountains on my own, right. That makes for a compelling film, but that's not actually what we're doing in business, right? We're showing people that we see them and we understand them. They have a unique solution to their problems. So the relatability factor is so important, you know? So all of a sudden I'm like, great. So you say your life is boring. My life is pretty boring day to day, so let's chat. Right? You understand me? So that, that's never an issue. And every time somebody says, oh, like, you know, I don't have a story. I have never yet met one person who I can't find that story. And actually, you know, if we talk about your core story, it's not your life story. So it doesn't have to be super interesting. But your core story is why you, what you do matters brought to [00:13:00] life by a single moment that actually shows your audience what working with you is gonna look like in their life. It's really that simple. So I often say like your core story, yes, you feature in it obviously quite heavily. But it's not about you because we design it to speak to your audience. Sophie: Okay. So you have your core story, and that is your, your, is that like your fundamental business ethos or you know, like your core thing that you do, and then I guess there's other. Smaller stories that you use to then branch off that. Is that right? Colette: Yeah, there's, and actually the way I teach storytelling, you can have more than one core story. You know, people are like, but is this, is that? And I'm like, great, you've got more than one. So even if you look at that core story, then we'll start, you know, it can be an amazing diagnostic tool because sometimes people are kind of talking about one thing or going in one business direction. I'm like, oh, but hang on, you're. Story really illuminates this part, and they're like, wow, yeah, I [00:14:00] hadn't seen that before. And that just feels so good. And it's like the missing piece of the puzzle that, you know, they've been kinda scrabbling around for for ages. So yeah, you can have your, your core stories. I, I always say that's it's quite low frequency, maybe that bigger story. And what I mean by that is you're not gonna share it all the time. Like you're not gonna be on Instagram every single day sharing your core story. So therefore we need more stories to share. Now you can have success stories. Obviously a lot of people would say they're testimonials, but I don't. Teach people testimonials because they don't allow your people to see themselves in the journey. So we craft, we take that testimonial, craft us as as a success story. It becomes much more powerful. You can have the offer story, right? Not just, Hey, I've put this offer out cause I wanna make loads of money this summer. Sophie: guys, I've got targets to hit. Okay. Kids, kids need new shoes for school in September, [00:15:00] so we could get on this. Colette: Yeah. And my kids are my wife. And everyone's like, Sophie: Yeah, Colette: yeah, like you said, with love, but you there, you're why they're not my wife. Sophie: Yeah. Colette: So the offer story, you know, why have you created that offer? And I could tell you the story about my own program, BC why I created it, and it was because. I, I, I was new to business and I hadn't sold it. Like I, I didn't know how to sell, you know? I was like, oh my God. Like I've been a journalist, I've been an author, you know, now when, when people got on a call with me and they asked me about pricing, I'd literally go, oh my God, do I have to tell you how you can work with me now? So it never felt good to me. And then because I knew that was a gap, I started to like follow sales coaches and. I remember being on this zoom and this woman saying to me, who was a sales coach? You know, like, you have to have this lead board and like track your warm and your cold leads and then you know, you can speak to them in [00:16:00] the dms. She wasn't teaching people to spam, but it was like, just get really friendly and chatty with them and, and I just thought, oh my God, shoot me now. Like, Sophie: I am not doing that. Colette: And it's just like, I just think I'm gonna have to kind of close this very fledgling business because if that's what it takes to be successful, I know I can't do it. Like one, I don't see people as leads. I see them as people. And two, like I will not have a conversation with someone just in order to bring them into my business. And, and yet when I put an offer out, I remember Sharing it on one live on Instagram, one live my Facebook group. And then I sold out this offer and I said to my friend, I was like, isn't it amazing that I, I'm kinda so shocked because I dunno how to sell. And she said, Colette, you're selling every single day in your content. And I was like, oh my God. Yeah, I am. And. Sophie: I so am. Colette: And I was like, why did [00:17:00] I not see that? And so, you know, the idea that you get to be different, that you don't have to, and look, if tracking leads works for you, great. I'm not knocking it. It just didn't feel good to me. So you get to do things in a different way and you get to build that desire and you, you know, you get to do that with what I was doing, which was telling stories on video. Sophie: Yeah, I think as well, it's. It's, and I know that this is how sort of be seen started as well, is that it was about that visibility, wasn't it? And actually just putting yourself on video and you know, like that being visible elevates the story so much, doesn't it? And like obviously you can write the stories as well and that comes with it and that's part of it. But I know you do a lot of briles as well because you can share quite a lot visually, can't you? Quite quickly. Colette: Yeah, and I think, well, one, the video, obviously my background is in TV reporting, but actually I was really awful. I mean, I was, you know, I could go live to like [00:18:00] millions of people on the six o'clock news, but ask me to go live to a hundred people. You know, on Instagram, I was like, oh my God, what did I do? Yeah. And when my husband first looked at my videos, he is like, oh, it's still a little bit like, collect my best news. He's like, who are you? You know, can you drop this sort of corporate speak? So everybody has that, right. Even if you, you know, if you've been in pr, I know you are in marketing, it's like marketing for your own business feels so exposing. It really does. But with the video, Like actually, you know, I'm really time poor and I'm also quite lazy. And so even though I can write, because obviously I've written books, like it will take me probably four times as long to do a written post as it would do a video. So I'm like, which 1:00 AM I gonna choose? Sophie: Which 1:00 AM I gonna choose? And I mean, I know cause I follow you obviously it's like you do them in the car on the school run, like on the way back, like as you quickly like go in the house to do something like, I mean, you are like super slick now. But we were talking [00:19:00] before we started recording about how actually having these threads of stories, understanding your clients inside out. I think the amazing thing of that is that it becomes very brain friendly, and that's what we were talking about, isn't it? Like we're all busy, we've all got stuff to do. This can't be our entire focus. But actually, once you get really clear on your stories, it just becomes super, super simple. Colette: It really does. So and going back to what you were saying about like, my story is boring, so one of the things I teach, like going, you know, kind of filtering down from your core story and your office story is this small story system called the Waterfall Story System. And that is like how to take like any of your messages cuz you're gonna have more than one message. You'll have kind of like ecosystem of key messages and put them through this story whereby you get to say, Kind of the same thing over and over again without ever repeating yourself. And, and that works on so many levels. One, like I never plan my content because I don't need to, because my head is like popcorn. I'm like, oh, there's a little story I can use that. I could use that. [00:20:00] But also, if you think about it, right, we, none of us really want to be that business ball. So it's like, oh, there, there's Sophie again banging on about a business Sophie: Yeah. Colette: Yeah. And so why, while we do need to do some of that, when you use these stories and it's like, oh, you know, I was out walking the dog and I have, and, and so all of a sudden people can see themselves in that because they've had relatable incidents. They've had Sophie: Mm. Colette: experiences, and so it's a really powerful way to throw light on what it is you are talking about. Make it really visual. But also right at the beginning people are like, oh, I see myself in that. Sophie: Yeah, and that's where the power is really. I was reading something the other day actually about storytelling and how it's the small details that can make a huge amount of difference. Like rather than saying, I was at the shop saying like I was at. Lids will give someone a totally different visual to I was in the Fortman Mason food court, [00:21:00] like naturally straight away. You have like a set of assumptions of , is that me? Is that not me? Like, and like how was I feeling when I was there and I felt out of my depth or I felt, you know, suddenly you are like connecting on a different level versus just saying I was at a shop Colette: Yeah. And look what happens, right? If you say little, right little to me, we've got a little really close to us. I go there quite a lot. But the cues are massive, right? So I'm like, I'm always slightly like hacked off to being little because I, you know, I'm like, why am I doing this again? Why am I queuing up? So the kind of feeling that that brings up for me and the emotion, if you said, oh, You were at Fort and Mason, I'm like in a com, entirely Sophie: Mm. Colette: place. And I was doing this yesterday with a client and she was talking it like we were, you know, working out her call story. And I said, okay, you have this corporate career. And I was like, but what exactly did you do? And she was like, oh, well I was, you know, an HR partner. And I'm like, well, now I get much more of a sense. Of what we're talking about. So [00:22:00] those small details, it's a little bit like if you were watching a film, and this is where most people go wrong with their storytelling and their messaging, but if you are watching a film, imagine that film being shot on like a long shot. So you never get close up to the characters. You never see where they are. You never like see their face to see any emotion without the detail. That's what you're doing in storytelling. You're not allowing people to see, and if they can't see, they're not living it with you, and therefore it loses all its power. Because the amazing power of the story is that it's interactive, right? You join in, it's like you are playing the football game. You're not just a spectator and now you are invested in, so I don't have to ask for your attention because you are in it. Sophie: yeah. You were just living it with me, like right there. And then, so in terms of. So you're coming, say, you're coming to this, you're like, right, I've got my business. I mean, it works really, really well for intangible businesses, doesn't it? Like, since service businesses, this can work really, really well for where you find it's quite hard [00:23:00] sometimes to articulate how you help people and what it is you offer. How are you, how are you bringing the storytelling into your business? Like in a, practical kind of sense? Colette: Yeah, well the first thing that comes up there is a lot of people come to me because they've tried to niche, which is kind of the, you know, conventional advice online. And you know, the, the, it's like I help women over 40 regulate their hormones by doing this, right? And actually what they find is they do a lot of different things. So it's really hard to pick one thing, but of course that advice is, is telling them to pick one thing. So actually, with this storytelling, what we're doing is we're going, well, this, what you see is confusion, actually sets you apart as a leader. So you might have done, you know, you might have trained in. I don't know to be a naturopath or something. But then you do meditation. And why did you do the meditation? Because you realize that yes, you can treat the body, but unless you're treating the mind as well, you're not gonna get the result. So all of a sudden what has become [00:24:00] what was before an issue, like, oh, we really can make virtue out of that and we can show that you have spotted gaps. Yeah. And then you've innovated to film them cuz that's what leaders do. And now we set you up as the guide and we create that case for why your way is better. So that's the first piece that people are struggling with. Like how do they describe what they do when they do a lot of different things in terms of like the intangibles. And here's why a lot of messaging feels misaligned. And again, I've been having conversations with people about this just like now. Is because they feel like in order to get clients, they have to promise a very specific outcome. Yeah. And that doesn't always feel good, right? Because, you know, I don't promise anyone who comes into my course, I'm gonna get you a 10 K month. But if we looked at the old kind of messaging, you know, niche scenario, that's what we're [00:25:00] told to promise. Right? Something very tangible. So what I'm like, well, let's do it visually. Okay, so if you say, I'm gonna get you more confidence, that's too bully. Right? And, and that is not tangible. It's not visual, but what is more confidence gonna look like in my life? Start to tell me about the times when you didn't have confidence and then you turn that around and what that brought into your life. Now I can see it. Yeah. So it's not so much, if I can say making it tangible, but it's making it visual when people can see it. They understand what that's gonna look like in their life, and then it becomes desirable. It's why I end up working with a lot of my clients like you. Sophie: It's that selling without selling, isn't it? It's just talking about like with that passion about how you could help people move forward, like what it is that you help people to do in their own lives and in their businesses as well. So what would be the next steps for someone if they're thinking, right, I want to [00:26:00] start thinking about my story. Start with the core story. Is that where you would start? Colette: Yeah, I mean sometimes, you know, sometimes your core story can become clear through the messaging work we do with the people. So, Sometimes the core story illuminates the work you wanna do. And I never wanna be too prescriptive about it because sometimes it's like, if that core story isn't immediately obvious, I never want people to get stuck there. Cause it's like, look, it will be obvious. And also, here's the thing, right? If your core story is a kind of mini movie, mini mind movie about why your work matters and what it looks like in people's lives, it's gonna be constantly evolving. Sophie: Yeah. Colette: It's not like you're not writing something like a book novel that's like once and done right. It's always changing and that's okay. Sophie: I think that's actually a big thing that's come up for me at the moment with a lot of clients is And just from an ads perspective as well, like ads [00:27:00] change all the time and people kind of come to me and want often like a definitive answer, like, what's gonna be the best audience for me? Or what's, you know, how do I do this type of ads and get this sort of thing? And it's , well, it's just all testing. It will change over the time. There's never gonna be one definitive answer, but I say to my clients a lot. It's just for now, it's not forever. You've just got to kind of get started and keep moving and showing that, like doing the testing, making the progress. Same thing with everything, isn't it? Colette: Yeah, sorry. I think the testing is massive and that comes in messaging as well. And you know, one of the things like cuz well the conditioning around the niche is really strong, isn't it? And even though, you know, I kind of talk a lot about that. I see people come into my program, they're like, yeah, I wanna be my own niche. But they're still approaching it from the old way. Sophie: Yeah, my niche is Yeah. And so, you know, or, or they, they're kind of really spending like a lot of time thinking about this. I help statement, like I help people. [00:28:00] And I'm like, okay, well you know, I have a million different statements like that, and nobody is ever really gonna buy from you because of that one statement. So how about we just start speaking about. Colette: What, you know, you are passionate about now, and we kind of make that really visual and then you sort of sit with it and go, did that feel right? Or that felt a bit off. And then every time you do that, you get closer and closer and closer. Because what's also happening is hopefully you're getting the engagement back and you can see what's resonating. And you know, I know Sophie, that's a massive one in ads. Some of the best creatives that I have created have performed the worst. Sophie: Yeah, always. I say this all the time, like the creatives. I'm like, oh, that's good. Oh, I'm pleased with myself with that one. That's gonna be great. And then the one I'm like, oh, I'll just quickly do another one to test against it. And it's always the other one that does well. Like it's always that you've got to keep testing and I love that what you said that about [00:29:00] you know, getting the engagement back as well, because sometimes like. You can convince yourself like, oh, it's the algorithm. Like no one's seeing, especially if we're talking Instagram, like no one's seeing my posts like, oh, that's just how it is. Nobody engages anymore. But I promise you, if you put something out there that resonates with people, I did this a few weeks ago. I put something out there that really resonated with people. I'm like, my dms and the comments were just flooded. Like with people talking to me about it and. Like booking calls in, I had emails off it and it was like, oh, okay. When you get the messaging right, when you paint a picture, when you tell that story and people really buy into it, the people are there. The engagement is there, but maybe people are a bit more discerning now than they used to be and they just need, like they want, they want that real connection. They're not just gonna engage for the sake of engaging. Colette: Yeah, and, and you know, I think that that kind of story powered way is like we're doing the hard work for our audience, so it's like, no, I've just, I, you should know exactly in this [00:30:00] story if this is you. Sophie: Yeah. Colette: You can see it. I'm not leaving you going kind of scratching your head going, so does she mean this or this? It's like, no, it's there for you. The way I describe it is I'm quite old, so you might not remember. I think it was actually, I think they, they remade it, but you know, ready, steady cook. Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, Colette: So it's like the difference between you know, a story is like you presenting all your dinner guests with the finished meal or the, the kind of non-story approach is like, here's some ingredients, go and make a dish, you know, so, Sophie: See what you come up with. Colette: Yeah. So everybody's like, oh, I think you meant this. And so it's all like a variation on the theme. But it, and it's why it's so important, like if you want your message to land, storytelling is like the best way, right? Because it's just a precision form of of doing it. I think as well that what I've noticed about ads Sophie, is that they're phenomenal for actually testing and really seeing in super fast time what [00:31:00] message resonates, you know, and, and we're all kind of like, oh, if I put money into the ads machine, like I want money out the other side. And it's like, well, You know, could we look at it slightly differently? Could we look at it as a long-term growth strategy? Sure. You, you know, I've, I've never lost money on ads and I, I would rather not lose money on ads. I would rather none of my clients lose money on ads. However, sometimes you will see, even by like doing two video views or something. You know, is it this message that's really resonating with people or is it this message? And on that note, that does not mean that you have to kind of change your whole program or whatever. It's like what you go out on the front foot with, you know? I would talk about like being your own niche or, you know, my waterfall story system. Those two things are really, really powerful for me. I do so much more and you know, you do so much more as well, but what's the strongest signal that is going to attract attention and get people into our world? Sophie: Yeah, and I've been doing quite that quite a lot with clients actually at the moment, like the [00:32:00] rapid testing as well. So like actually how can we test out a few, a few different angles, a few different messages, and then build on that so you're not then discarding everything else. You're not saying, right, that's the only message we're ever gonna go for from here on in. It's just a case of like, okay, that's what people are responding to. Let's test out because then organically, You know, you're putting out stuff that's gonna resonate with people as well. So in terms of your ads, and just going back a little bit, how, how have you kind of used them in your business over the last few years? Colette: My biggest or my first success, let's not say my biggest success with ads was actually me kind of learning how to. Do them myself, which I will say as somebody who feels like they've got a kind of a electromagnetic field around them, when any tech comes in and like tech just goes wrong, I am. I do not have that kind of brain. I mean, it was like, I think I was crying at one point. I was like, is this really, you know? But I knew that actually learning or at least [00:33:00] understanding them and being able to do them myself is gonna be something really powerful for my business. So I ran lead ads, lead formats. And I think at the time I spent about 750 pounds to get people into a three day live event that I was doing online, which would lead to my program. And I had the most phenomenal, and again, it was because the masterclass really works. It's, you know, it's everything isn't, it's the messaging. It's like where you take people on that journey. But I had gone, you know, cuz my business was quite young from like a sort of launch that made me 10 k to using ads and bringing more people into a launch that made me 35 k in sales. And I was like, you need more ads. Sophie: Now we're talking. Colette: Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I should say those big jumps often come with so much fear as well. So I, I don't really believe in the quantum leap because it took me a while to get over that and to kind of recalibrate. So, you know, there is that as well.[00:34:00] But yeah, so I was like, okay, I'm totally sold on ads. And so I have invested money, you know, with you because it's like, well, You know, I felt like maybe I was kind of taking the car out before I'd passed my test. So I was a little bit dangerous in Ads Manager with a little bit of knowledge. And so working with you and actually, you know, we set up my ads for a lead magnet just before Christmas. And I was like, okay, come January, I'm committed to getting 500 new people on my list. And again, it was like, that's money that I'm prepared to spend. And you know, I remember in February spending a bit more on a, on an event and at February was a strange month cuz it was like, oh, nothing's happening, nothing's happening. And then by the end I was like, oh, that's 20 K in cash. Right. That's quite a lot. Sophie: yeah, something's happened. Yeah. Colette: Cause the beauty of it is if you have grown an [00:35:00] audience, On your email list and you know that you know they're kind of engaged, that they want what you have, then you really can put out different offers and begin to bring more people in at any time. Sophie: Yeah, and that's the thing, so you kind of went from much more of a ads before a launch approach, didn't you? And what we worked on was really taking away some of that, some of that fear and that kind of like, okay, I'm gonna spend a lot of money on ads and hope that it kind of comes out the other side to. Actually, I'm gonna take a much more of a systematic approach to this and have ads running all the time, building my list all the time, much more slowly feeding in, like you say, those offers and those calls with people and kind of connecting with them to help, yeah. To kind of, I guess that safety and that much more predictable then. Colette: Yeah, and, and you have to trust a bit, you know, there's a lot of Sophie: Oh yeah. Yeah. Colette: you know, I mean, [00:36:00] who knows what's going on? Ad costs can fluctuate. My ad costs are weirdly very low, you know, so I'm very grateful for that. But yeah, like not necessarily to expect something immediately and understanding that. You know, some people buy from me, like they will literally see an ad that was I've just taken on an amazing one-to-one client and she saw an ad, I think two days before got on a call with me. She's like, I'm in right for my biggest package. And I was like, okay. Wow. But then other people will be, oh yeah, I watched this, you know, I got your lead magnet back in, you know, January, and they're only now thinking about, and, and both is entirely okay. Sophie: Yeah. Colette: You know, and people need to feel it's right for them. I never wanna push anyone into a, you know, into working with me if it doesn't feel right. Sophie: Yeah, and I think that's the thing of having the. The always on kind of ad strategy, the kind of low level, always bringing people in. It's like you will get both, like you'll get people who jump straight in and they'll also get people who kind of hold, [00:37:00] you know, wait until they're really ready, but. If you're only running ads for big launches, it's much harder to then catch those people all the time cuz you're kind of doing it with such a hard, big momentum into one thing you, it's very much about take action now. Take action now. I mean, I know you've restructured your whole business so it's much more evergreen anyway, so it's kind of comes with that launch process. But yeah, and a lot of my clients at the moment are talking about how can they make everything like a bit calmer, a bit more consistent, a bit more confident? Bringing people in on that kind of basis rather than this big energy and then this big crash. Colette: Yeah, and I have a story about that. So after the, the kind of woohoo amazing launch in, I think that was in the February of 2022, I was like, great. Right. I'm just gonna like, Quadri for my ad spend and I'm gonna bring in four times the amount of people and it's all gonna be great. And so I spent I think about just shy of 5,000 pounds on ads, right? So for me that was enormous at the time. And I didn't [00:38:00] really have the money, you know, but I'm like, no, it's fine. It's all coming in. And I remember getting off. I did exactly the same. I did exactly the same launch. And I remember coming off the, the kind of final day where, you know, I'm like inviting people in and I had no dms and nobody had expressed an interest and I kind of stumbled outta my room, which was entirely different to like jumping out of my room the Sophie: Yeah. Colette: I like, I've got 10 dms and everyone wants in. And I said to my husband, I said, I think I've just lost five grand. And in terms of your nervous system, Sophie: yeah, that's not, Colette: Now, ultimately I got exactly the same amount of people in. But so for me that was a really good lesson. And like the data is the data, right? It's not what's gonna happen. Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. Like and that's what you like, you know, talking about promises and you know, when you are doing your promises, like you can never promise, like Facebook ads will bring people into your world. You can't then guarantee clients at the other end. You have to put so many more things [00:39:00] in place and that's. A lot of what I'm doing with clients at the moment is like, how can we make that journey from coming into your world much more consistent and predictable as they go through a kind of customer journey, rather than just kind of pouring them in at the top and like hoping they fall out the bottom as clients. So yeah, but we are all about nice, calm, nervous system here. Colette: Yeah. Well that, I mean, I have to say I've never, ever spent that amount of money on ads again, so, Sophie: No, I can imagine. Yeah, I'd be like, but I guess probably if you look at your year this year in terms of how much you end up spending on ads versus that year, it probably will end up evening out. It's just that it'll be in a much more like predictable, systematic way where you're bringing people in all the time rather than those big peaks and troughs Colette: Yeah, you are right. Actually, I looked on Ads Manager and I was like, Sophie: adds up, doesn't it? Colette: For me, I, I feel like I should say this as well, like that argument about, you know, organic v adss, to me it's just a crazy [00:40:00] argument. It's like, hang on. If you wanted to get to Scotland from London and somebody offered you like, you know, a, a lift, would you rather walk? Or would you rather get a lift? Right. Or it's like, oh, I'll do, but the thing that's working really well for me is what happens when people see an ad is they come onto your organic. Content, right? They come and go, well who is this person? Is she complete shyster? Does she know what she's talking about? Do I connect with her? Do I actually like her? And so they, you know, I get so many messages, and I'm sure you do as well with people going, oh, I saw this and then I went and binged your content. So it's like this beautiful partnership. You know that they work in tandem with each other, and that is a really powerful way for me to do things. And I know you are on that page as well. You know, to have that great content, but then put the kind of, you know, rocket fuel behind it with the ads. Sophie: Yeah. And that's exactly it. I always talk to people when I start working with them about it's add or amplify what you are already doing organically. So the [00:41:00] first thing we have to do is like, do a big audit of your organic stuff. Like what, what are you saying? Where are you pointing people? What, what actions are we asking people to take? What's your content? Is your messaging strong? And at that point when we feel like we've got a really nice organic like funnel or customer journey going on and it's working. At that point we put ads to it. And I think when you said, I'm really lucky, my ad costs are really low, your ad costs are really low because your organic customer journey is really strong and obviously your messaging is really on point as well. And that's what can make such a huge difference. People always, always, always ask me. I think it's the audience. I think it's the audience is not working for me. And I will tell you like nine times outta 10, it is not the audience, it is the messaging. Even the graphics, they're not, they have an impact, but not as much as the core messaging that you are actually trying to kinda say. Colette: And so on that the bolder I go with my messaging, the lower the cost of. Sophie: I bet. Yeah, exactly. And you've got to, I talk a lot about how do you get really specific, like we've been talking about, like people [00:42:00] need to know it's for them. Like within an instant, you have got no time with ads to fluff about and sort of make it really wooly. Like you've just gotta get to the point and like you say, make it really like, ooh. Okay. And that's where you kind of get the magic. Amazing. Oh, that is such an amazing chat. Thank you. Colette. What would you say is the one thing that someone could do today to start taking action on this? Colette: Oh, so I think first of all, it like do a little audit on yourself, right? What are you saying? And where, is there a little bit of mismatch between what you're saying, what you and what you want to say? Yeah, because you kind of know if you just give yourself enough space, you know, where you are, maybe selling yourself a bit short or you're not being bold enough or you know, you are talking about, hey, get clients when, what you really wanna help people about is with mindset in business, but you feel like you've gotta talk about getting clients cuz everybody else is, you know, and it's outta alignment with you. And then like, What is your journey like? What is [00:43:00] that cool story? How does that build the case for what you do and set you up as a leader? Like don't ever be confused about that, but see it as like a real virtue and an asset that you can capitalize on. Sophie: Yeah. Amazing. And just cuz that works really well to flow into, you have got a new download. Is it a core story blueprint? Is that right? Colette: Yeah, it is. So this is this is kind of like what I took you through when we worked together. Sophie: Amazing. Well, it's really good guys. So. Colette: Yeah. So this is the kind of process that I take people through how you can design this cool story that actually acts as a client attraction magnet because those people can see themselves in it. So yeah, it's called the Cool Story Blueprint. Sophie: Amazing. So that link will be in the show notes. And if you want to follow Colette and all of this and see how this amazing story, framework, and stories live, you can go to Instagram. Colette Macbeth's Storytelling, and she's also got a Facebook group, the Big Visibility Lounge, and I will [00:44:00] put the links to those in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Colette. That was amazing. Colette: Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for joining me this week. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive new episodes every Tuesday when they're released. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to rate or leave a review wherever you are listening to it. It only takes a few seconds, but it really does make a massive difference to new people finding me. Thank you again for joining me, Sophie, in this episode of Lionheart Marketing. See you next time.