EP. 10: How to work with influencers (without having a huge budget) with guest Vicky Sills (Lemonade Social)
What’s this episode about?
If you’ve ever thought working with influencers could be a good idea for your business but you’re intimidated of approaching them, worried it will cost thousands, scared you’ll send products and never get anything back for it - this episode is for you!
Vicky helps businesses to harness the power of influencer marketing without huge budgets and in this episode she breaks it down in to easy steps you can follow to get started.
Episode key takeaways:
What exactly is an ‘influencer’ and how do you find them
The first step to working with influencers
Creating long term relationships
How much do influencers charge and what do you get for the fee?
The difference between influencers and content creators.
INTRODUCING: VICKY SILLS
Vicky has 20yrs experience in B2C marketing, and before launching Lemonade Social in 2018, spent 5 years working in the Creative Solutions team at the London Evening Standard, working with brands including British Airways, Starbucks, and Andrew Lloyd Webber Productions. Prior to her role at ES, Vicky worked for a film partnerships agency, working on above and below the line media partnerships and promotions. Her clients included Walt Disney Studios and 20th Century Fox. Vicky now specialises in organic social media management and influencer marketing and has managed social media campaigns for Celebrity Mum / Dad of the Year sponsorship, Instagram Story brand takeovers and new product launches.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
WEBSITE: www.lemonadesocial.co.uk
INSTAGRAM: @lemonadesocial_
OFFER: Vicky is offering listeners an amazing £50 off her Influencer Discover package using the code GROWING50
Subscribe to the Growing Pains podcast
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Read the transcript:
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Hello, and welcome to growing pains. The marketing podcast for parent and baby brands who want to grow and get more consistent sales, but without the overwhelm of feeling like you have to be online 24 7, I'm Sophie, your host, and a Facebook and Instagram ad strategist who specializes in parent and baby brands as well as a mom of two.
Join me each week as I alongside some wonderful guests, she had practical tips and advice about how you can use and combine marketing strategies to get more impact for your effort. A quick warning, before we start, I can get a little bit sweary, so just be careful of any little ears listening along.
Sophie: Hello. Today. I am thrilled to be here with Vicky, from lemonade social. We're going to be talking all about influencer marketing, which I'm so excited. Vicky's got 20 years experience in B2C marketing. And before launching lemonade social in 2018, she [00:01:00] spent five years working in the creative solutions team at the evening standard, working with brands like British airways, Starbucks, and Andrew Lloyd Webber productions.
Prior to that role, Vicky worked for a film partnerships agency working on above and below the line media partnerships and promotions with clients, including Walt Disney studios and 20th century. Vicki now specializes in organic social media management and influencer marketing, and has managed social media campaigns for celebrity, mum and dad of the year, Instagram story, brand takeovers and new product launches.
So I think it's safe to say we're in very good hands to explore more about how brands and businesses can work with influencers, Vicky. Welcome to the podcast.
Vicky: Thank you for having me.
Sophie: I'm very excited to talk to you today, but before we jump into it, let's talk a little bit about you. What's your like work family life setup.
Vicky: I live in house a boy.
Sophie: Oh my gosh. You're like the total opposite to me. Aren't you? I'm like, we're all about the girls [00:02:00] in our house if you're like the opposite.
Vicky: There's a lot of football chat in this house.
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicky: learned to embrace it. There's no
Sophie: kind of got to have a new, yeah.
Vicky: fighting against it. Yeah, so I work mainly from home. All the local Starbucks, depending on if it's a lot of the time, it just depends on whether it's raining or not. And I can be bothered to walk down there.
Yeah. So that's kind of where, and then the, you know, there's bits in the evening sat on my laptop on the knee, you know, in front of the tele doing bits and pieces of the juggle. Yeah.
Sophie: Yeah. And how old are you kids?
Vicky: My eldest is six and my youngest is about to turn one. So yeah.
Sophie: yeah. Very similar ages to my kids. Actually. I've got a five-year-old and a one-year-old So yeah.
I can empathize with the juggle of that age gap.
Vicky: It's an interesting mix.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. Fab. So now we know a bit more about you. We are going to do the quick fire round, so nothing to be scared of. We're just going to find out all the really important stuff.
So do you prefer tea or coffee?
Vicky: [00:03:00] Coffee.
Sophie: Always, I like that was like straight away Starbucks. Is that, is that the favor? Is that just the local?
Vicky: Yes. It is probably my favorite that, yeah, that Amir I coffee for the caffeine.
Sophie: Yeah. I know just the dogs or cats,
Vicky: dogs.
Sophie: always
Vicky: No question.
Sophie: bagels or crumpets.
Vicky: Do you know often eaten loads of bagels recently? This is a really hard one for me. I'm going to go with Crump.
Sophie: I mean, I do love a crumby. I, one of my other guests told me that bagels have really high protein in them. So since then I've felt like really, quite good about eating
Vicky: I've been buying the thin bagels
Sophie: Yeah. I
Vicky: seeds on, which are really nice, but I feel I should stay with confidence. I do love a clump, those
Sophie: I know. I love a combat to a beach or pool.
Vicky: beach,
Sophie: It's a winter.
Vicky: Selma
Sophie: Color on Monaco, crime.
Vicky: color.
Sophie: Just not quite as decisive on that
Vicky: Yeah, well, [00:04:00] not see monochrome. I think, you know, if you live in like the tower and it's all white and gray and I don't like that, I like a bit of color. Yeah, no color. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Sophie: Early morning or late night. I need a late morning and an early night.
Vicky: I'm probably a late night, but not too late.
Sophie: Yeah, no, Not too late.
No, I know. I, my idea is like, if I'm home and in bed by like 11 half
Vicky: Yes. That's the drain.
Sophie: I mean, normally at home, I'm not going to buy that late. Normally I'm not upstairs by about half nine, but Yeah. if I'm going out, I like to be home by midnight, like Cinderella. Brilliant. Right. Let's talk influences.
So, first of all, I thought it might be helpful if we kind of just talk about what would we class when we're talking about influences, who are we talking about? Let's get a bit of a common kind of knowledge of what we're talking
Vicky: So an influencer as the name kind of gives you, [00:05:00] is someone that will influence you into buying something. I actually don't think influencers themselves love the term much, but that's unfortunately what they're now known as, I guess what you would, if we're going to go back a bit, it's what bloggers evolved into.
So where people used to just have a. And used to review products or share their day, or if they, you know, it's a travel blog or a beauty blog. And obviously when Instagram came along and YouTube and things, it evolved into calling them influencers. So that's where brands could send them a product, supply them product, pay them to review something.
And then that would in turn, influence their audience into buying set product. So that's an, obviously it's evolved quite rapidly in probably the last two, three years, it's really kind of got some steam behind it. And you find that businesses have a lot more of share of their marketing budget in influencer marketing.
And it [00:06:00] kind of tallies up with the reduction in marketing spend on traditional print advertising or advertorials. And then the money is now gone into. Influence marketing. Cause if you looked at something like cosmopolitan magazine, for example, which I believe it's not in print anymore, I could be wrong.
That might have back in the day, had over a million copies sold, but now it could be 300,000 where you could pay an influencer. That's got a million followers, so that there's a very clear link as to when print advertising spend has gone down and implement some opt-ins Francisco.
Sophie: It's really interesting. Isn't it? How like much more accessible it is as well for like smaller businesses now.
Vicky: oh yeah, definitely. I mean, when I started my career immediate partnerships, It was, I mean, that was back in the day when it was Contra deal. So you would, this is how long ago it was. You could supply them magazine with a TV and a blue Ray player, remember that. But, and the PR as a prize, and they would give you a [00:07:00] page in the magazine, but obviously you can't really do that anymore, but that's sort of how you can work with some influences.
But a page in, you know, a magazine in the heat magazine or something would have been , tens of thousands of pounds, which is just not achievable for a small business. So yeah. Influences a much more attainable for small brands. So, which I think is a really good thing because. It can really catapult their brand.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And we're not talking our way about everyone working with people who have like a million followers. So are there different kinds of levels as to who you
Vicky: that are different levels there. So there's. Macro micro and mega influences and also nano influencers. So nano ones, I mean, you and I are technically anatomy influences fewer than a thousand photos. Although
Sophie: I'm on the edge. I'm
Vicky: on the edge, you're on the edge. Oh, so you could become a micro-influencer soon hikes. I do.
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicky: Again. Now there's a few in a thousand micro-influencers is I would [00:08:00] say a majority of the ones that I tend to work with it's between 10,000 and a hundred thousand followers, and then macro influences a hundred thousand and a million, and then mega influencers, which is over a million.
So that tends to be celebrities,
Sophie: Yeah, so like you're real big, big
Vicky: but I would say the sweet spot for most brands is the micro-influencers.
Sophie: and That's 10, 10,000, to 130.
Vicky: a hundred thousand. Jeff?
Sophie: Yeah, and I mean, that's pretty big range, but I, it still feels quite achievable. Like kind of targeting those kinds of people. Doesn't it? Not all of them are on the agency being managed by agencies. There's quite a lot of them. You can still build like direct relationships with, I guess.
Vicky: Yeah, there's, there's a huge, it varies massively. Actually, there is some that are quite small that obviously do a lot themselves. Traditionally, as they tend to get bigger, they might get an agency on board to help manage them or see, get deals in and things. But then there are influences that might have nearly a hundred thousand followers that just like to do it themselves because maybe they don't want to pay an agency a bit of a fee.
Sophie: Yeah. [00:09:00] And especially if they've got a background in marketing or they feel confident in doing it. Okay. So, we're so we're talking about people who influence other people. So, and we know roughly we're looking for 10,000 to a hundred thousand. So what would be like the steps we would go through if we think, right.
Okay. We want to dabble in influencer marketing, where would we stop?
Vicky: I think what you kind of want to do is have a look at. Your followers, who's following you. Are there any influences that might already follow you? Cause that I would say you'd class that as the low hanging fruit, cause they're ones that are already following you because they obviously liked your brand.
They liked you'll put up, so they will be ones that it's worth starting to engaged with. You wouldn't tend to go in cold with an influencer. Can I gift you some product? Cause I, it might be a bit of a surprise and be like, what? I don't know what this is. It's so if you want to develop a relationship with them and that can be spending some time looking at some influences that are good fit for your brand, that might be in that it's [00:10:00] depending on see what you sell for.
So say for example, you, you sell baby products and you're looking at influences and you're looking at ones that have just had a baby. So it would make sense for you to kind of follow them, engage with their product. And then after you've been talking to them, you know, commenting on their posts and engaging a few months down the line, you might drop them a message and say, oh, I've seen that you started your weeding journey.
Can I send you some of our bowls and plates and bibs and things that it kind of makes sense and it feels a little bit more natural and then they're more inclined to be like, oh yeah, I'd love to I'd love to try a product, obviously with smaller brands give you kind of need to work out how much. When you haven't got budget to spend to pay influencers, gifting is a really good way to do it, but you need to think about how much we're willing to give away, because there is potential there for them to take the product.
And then you never hear from them again, it's unlikely. There isn't many that do it, but I think some industries are worse than others. I would say the mom and baby. Influences are very good at doing what they say they're [00:11:00] going to do. I think other arenas that beauty and fashion, I think they do, you can come across influencers that will take the product and then disappear off the face of fear.
But that is very rare. So I don't want that to put people off. But yes.
Sophie: try and get them to like agree to what you, so if you're just, I guess there's different levels of working with influencers, gifting, I guess, is the lowest level in terms of commitment. Would you say, like, in that example you gave like would you mind if I send you some of our plates and bibs, , in exchange for you talking about them or would you just hope that was implied.
Vicky: I tend to say, we'd really love you to gift your items. And if you love the product, it'd be great. If you could share it with your followers, no obligation, but they know they're not stupid. They get it. And they'll say to you, look, I've had it before, when I've been doing it on behalf of brands. I've already worked with the brand, or I've already got so many products.
It's, there's just no point that you very rarely now will they just take it as the same disappeared, but if. Just really friendly that, you know, they don't buy say, you know, if you really like it, I'd love it. If you [00:12:00] share it with your followers. And a lot of the time they're happy to do that. If they really like the product, especially if it's something that they're going to be using.
So if it was weaning products, for example, and they do share a lot of recipes or pictures of their child you know, feeding them and stuff, they can tack the brand that way. Another way. To sweeten them a little bit more is to say, oh, if you really love for, I'd also love to offer your fullest followers 10% off and give them a code.
So that again is a re and I've done that with a brand recently. And it's just a really nice way of, because infants, especially now I think a lot more conscious of becoming to sales. There's a couple of influences recently have said, look, I've just, I've got loads of brand deals happening this month.
It's just, that's just how it landed. I didn't mean to do this many. I'm really sorry. Like hope you can happy to support me in this, that and the other. Which I think is really nice because I think it shows that they do care about their audience. So actually offering them a discount to give their audience is a really nice [00:13:00] way for them to feel like they're giving back and it's.
You know, they cause they want, they want to be authentic to their audience. Their audience is their bread and butter. If they suddenly lost all their audience, that's their business gone. So they want to keep their audience happy. They don't want to come across as that. They will sell their soul for anything.
So I think giving a discount and it can just be 10 or 15%. It doesn't need to be. A huge discount. You know, it could be valid if you only wanted it valid over a long weekend or a week or something, you can stipulate that. But I think that is a really nice way of kind of cementing the relationship with the influencer.
And it's quite, and if it's not too expensive for you to give those products, it can be a really cost of cost-effective way of kind of dipping your toe in and just seeing how it.
Sophie: Yeah.
I, and I guess as well from a marketing perspective, if you're doing it with a few different influences and you give them a different code, each you can see , you know, whose audiences really are engaged or really are dialed into a similar kind of audience. And then I guess if you wanted to explore further working with them, it would be easier for [00:14:00] you to choose who to do that with, I guess it must be quite hard sometimes to link back sales, to, to work.
The influencers have done.
Vicky: Yeah, definitely. And that's what a lot of bigger brands tend to do is that they'll do exactly that. They'll gift out some product with discount codes. They'll look at which ones have been sort of successful. And that's when you then might think, okay, let's get some budget. Let's actually do a proper partnership and pay them.
And what a lot of brands are doing now, especially. Beauty brands. I noticed this with first they're having what they would call brand ambassadors. So rather than it being kind of a one hit wonder one product, one post or of stories, and that said they will work with that influencer for a period of six months or even a year.
They'll send them each of their new releases that the influence of sci shared with their audience that I'm working. I know beauty pie do this a lot. I'm working with beauty pie this year. They're going to send me all the products I'm going to showcase. You should tell you what I use. And again, obviously it's good for the brand because it's cement their relationship.
They work with influencers. They [00:15:00] know they can rely on, they know they've got a good engaged audience. And it also helps that that is a brand. The audience will regularly see on that influencer. So there's, again, there's that there's that trust there that like, okay, if they've cemented a six month relationship, this must be a good brand.
And it's just a really nice way of packaging it together and it feeling quite authentic and it's not. Churning out brand post after brand post. And it's all just different things. And one minute you're liking this brand of shower gel and the next minute it's another one and
it's all a bit convoluted and it doesn't there. Isn't a thing to it. Whereas I think brand ambassadors is definitely the route that I think a lot of brands are going to go.
Sophie: I think that's really interesting. And I think from a small business perspective as well, that it's great to have that link over a longer period of time, because it means you're not constantly looking for new
influences all the time. I see quite a lot in the baby world. I don't know if this is common across other industries as well, but you know, I think a lot of people dip their toe into.
Influencer marketing [00:16:00] by sort of putting a shout-out and getting brand ambassadors and people who kind of get a discount off their products and pop it up on their grid and that sort of thing. Is that something that's a common cause I think that's like a starter level almost. Isn't
Vicky: Yeah. I only ever really see that in the baby world. And I think that's partly because there's a lot of small brands that are starting out that want content because that's what you need, especially for Instagram, you need content. So they're looking for people that have got beautiful children that can take great photos and they're willing to.
Give them some product and a discount code, an exchange. It's similar sort of things we talked about with magazines. So it's on a contract deal basis. I'll give you the, you know, you scratch your back. I'll scratch my little thing. No, the other way around.
Sophie: Know, the person gets some nice products for their kids And they can go, they've both got stuff to kind of grow their Instagram account.
Vicky: Yeah. And it's just an for the would be influencers that sometimes that's how they're kind of entry into influencer marketing. If that's what they want to do, if they want to grow their page, because they've just had a baby [00:17:00] or something, that's kind of where they can get started because of Z, it gives them.
Reach through the brands, obviously tagging them and vice versa. So that's sort of an entry level, but it is strange that you only tend to see that in the baby world. I've not noticed it much elsewhere.
Sophie: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great way to kind of dip your toe in. And I think again, like what we spoke about earlier, if you're doing that with say five or 10 brand ambassadors, the next level really is to then see what kind of content they create. And would you get to a point where you would then I guess the next level would be to start paying them to create new content and developing that relationship more for both of you really to get more content for you and for them to start actually earning an income from it.
Vicky: Yeah, cause you both, that's the thing with Instagram, you just need loads of content. If you just constantly need content, which is why it's good to have a handful of brand ambassadors that you can make, Gidley send stuff to that. They can take photos that you can then use. And, you know, if it's photos or if [00:18:00] it's real stories, it's just a good way of keeping the content wheel alive.
Sophie: Yeah, Oh my God. I know it's endless, isn't it? And I guess as well is it just from an Instagram perspective, just cause there's so many different types of content, as you were saying that keeping the Instagram content wheel alive, I mean, you've got stories, wheels, you know, carousels, beautiful lifestyle images.
Would you kind of, I guess, as you progress and do more and more, would you start looking at different influencers for different types of content as well?
Vicky: Yeah, I tend to cause obviously reels now you can't get away from. It's like Instagram. It's like you will have rails and you like that.
Sophie: and you will enjoy it.
Vicky: So I did that recently for a few clients is that I'm looking at influencers specifically, ones that are good at creating reels. And if you're gifting them some products you might use.
Would you mind creating a real, could you create a reel for this? Sometimes they're happy to do it sometimes. I might say actually, because that is a little bit more time consuming than if it's just a couple of photos or a couple of stories. [00:19:00] So that's when you might need to pay them. And it might only be a few hundred pounds.
It might, you know, don't think that your needs, you need to pay influence thousands and thousands of pounds because that's really not the case.
Sophie: Well, that's a good question, actually. So you're like, how much does it cost? I mean, is it directly related to their followers, their engagement levels? Like, is it just how much they decide to charge you? Like, I feel like it's a little bit of a darker in that way. Like no one really shares
Vicky: I would love to say there is a specific. Price for each of them, but there absolutely is no it's a little bit of a wild west. And it, a lot of it will depend on whether they have an agent because obviously an agent takes fees , off, off of that, and they will tend to be a little bit more expensive.
But I would say an influencer with a thousand to 10,000 followers can charge anywhere up to about 500 pound for grid post which may or may not be a carousel. So there might be more than one post in that. Or Maaco influences with over a million followers. They could even charge it in excess [00:20:00] of 5,000 pounds for one post.
I did one recently for brands. He had, I think it was just under 800,000 followers. And it was 15,000 if this was dollars for three
Sophie: wow.
Vicky: So like less than a minute. Yeah.
Sophie: cry came.
Vicky: some brands will see value in that, in this instance, it didn't, it wasn't going to work for the brand.
But if you were wanting to just get some sales through the till and they, and you will go and really hard in with an offer like 25% off and you're giving them a code and they were including the link. It may be worth doing, but I think overall, you'd look at the campaign as a whole before you just spent $15,000 on one person.
Sophie: yeah, And I mean, you know, for most of our listeners, we'll be looking at, at the light more of the micro kind of level. So I mean like really, I'm sorry if these are really stupid questions, but like, are we paying different amounts for stories versus posts versus wheels? Or is it more of like, do you pay for [00:21:00] like a package or is
Vicky: Again, if
Sophie: just completely different?
Vicky: there is, they tend to sort of start off with you, how what's the lot of agencies they'll send you kind of, that influences media's pack. And it will say for a post it's this for a post and a set of stories, it's this for a post, some stories and reels it's there. So if you can , mix and match, but don't for a second thing that you.
Negotiate there's wiggle room. So if, say for example, one post and three stories, cause it tends to sent a group of stories into three. It was sort of 700 pounds, but you only had 600 pounds. You go back and say that, is there anything that you can do for 600 pounds? And they might say, okay, we'll do. Good post Institute stories or all that they might say, okay, actually, yeah, let's go with, that's fine.
We'll do that for 600 pounds. So don't think that you can't negotiate and you know, the worst thing they'll do is say, no, they're not.
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicky: always, yeah, it's always worth asking and saying that, oh, the budget [00:22:00] isn't quite that I've got 600 or just saying I've got 600 pounds. What could you do for that?
And I think it is good to, if you can get a good post and stories. Into the mix. I think it's quite good value. And then reels obviously reels, you can post on the grid. It's good for reach. I think the jury's still out a little bit on whether it's great for like discount codes or things. I think if you're going to give a discount, he definitely wants stories and a good post in the mix just because it's feels a little bit more permanent.
Yeah. Whereas real. So I wonder how you think about this, how, when you're scrolling through reels, how many times you actually read the copy post? I very rarely day.
Sophie: I think as well with stories, obviously everyone has the link now. So to be able to be able to click through straight onto the website and see, I do think is a massive, massive bonus there as well. And I think as well, one thing I was actually talking to a friend about this the other day.
It's really interesting. [00:23:00] Isn't it? When You're pitching. So when you were saying like, oh, the budget's only 600 pounds, I feel like it's easier to say that. As the, as, not as the owner of the business. So it's different saying, like I only have 600 pounds versus the business's budget is only 600 pounds. So some I was saying, I have a separate email address for that sometimes.
Emails out from the, I don't feel like I can, I don't know what, you know what I mean? Like mentally it's like, oh, I'm really sorry, but I only have 600 files actually. It's like the budget for the business is only 600 pounds. Just feels more. I don't know if there's like a mental thing that I probably need to work through, but I was talking to my friend and we were saying sometimes it helps to take on that separate.
Persona. If you feel a bit scared about asking for a discount, like get someone else almost like kind of create a different persona to ask for the
Vicky: But there's, I think in opposite to that,
Sophie: Yeah. God.
Vicky: you're doing the gifting, I actually think that's sometimes nicer to come from the owner [00:24:00]
Sophie: Yes.
Vicky: for the influencer, it's like, oh, this is your brand. Oh my God. I'd love to have like, cause you, you create that relationship with them. So it feels like they're helping a specific person.
Whereas if it's a big brand,
Sophie: I was think I was thinking more about if you were approaching an agency where you feel like they're more of like a business, you know, and you're like, you feel like, okay, I need to kind of up my game here. So. Okay. So we've kind of, we've looked for influencers that are in our niche have similar ideal clients.
We've kind of built a relationship with them. We've maybe done some gifting and then worked with them, I guess, just from a really practical perspective. Like what sort of things should you be thinking about, like with, I
don't know, con contracts or, you know, like that sort of the next step once you've said, right.
Okay. This is the price I'm going to do these three stories. Like what's the next
Vicky: You want to think about if, so, if you've got, say you you've decided on four influences and you've agreed budgets and things you want to look at, whether you want to do them [00:25:00] all on the same day. Or do you want to spread it out? I think there's pluses and minuses to both of those things. I don't miss.
There, there wasn't really a hard and fast rule. I think it just depends on what if it's a new product launch. For example, you might find that doing it all on the same day, you know, launches you with a bang where if it's just a little bit more of a brand awareness exercise, you might find that you have.
One on Monday one on Wednesday and then saves the others for the weekend or whatever. There's not really a rule around when they post it, but you want to have that agreed. And also times of day. So if you find that your page and your audience is most active in the evening, and you can say that to them, or they might, they obviously know their audience better.
They might say, actually my audience doesn't really get wake up until after seven o'clock trust what they tell you about their audience, because they know them best. As an as well, their agents as well, they'll be able to give you a steer on what will work for that influencer. Obviously, if there is something you really don't feel comfortable [00:26:00] with, then you can say, and it's just something that you can chat through.
So yes, sort of times of day, think about as well. You want send them a track link so you can see how much traffic is coming for them. And I've seen bespoke codes that we talked about. You want to have a look at as well. You can use, especially if it's stories, use their content for your Facebook advertising or your paid advertising, because that is a separate conversation that you need to have at the beginning.
All of, all of this with your ad manager, because obviously there's certain things as you know you can, and can't do in paid ads. So if you're going to go down that road, make sure you know that at the beginning, and you've had a chat with your admin. 'cause I've had that before, where it was kind of a bit too late that they sort of said, I actually can use this in ads.
And it just didn't work as an advert, which was a bit of a shame. So that's something that you think you want to do that put some money behind it, have a chat with your ad manager. So you noticed the do's and don'ts, but then you also need to mention that to the influencers. They may charge [00:27:00] you a little bit more, some don't, but some do it won't be a huge amount more, but they might say, okay, yes, you can use this as an ad for.
Three more weeks for an extra a hundred pounds. But that again, that needs to be clear that needs to be in the contract. So you would put in the contract, you know, we're using this for a pay diaper on Facebook and Instagram until the safest of may or whatever. that again is a really nice way of just making the partnership go that little bit further.
It is a little bit more budget if they're charging you, but it's definitely something to consider, as I say, have a chat with your ad manager about it. And you also just want to consider when you've agreed when it's going live, when what you have. Organically on your page, because if you're driving all these potential new followers, you want your best content as the first few posts.
So if it is you're launching a a new product. You want to make sure you've got plenty of contents when they're finding your page and they're scrolling through it's [00:28:00] interesting content that, that, that will engage them. So that's one to think about as well. If you're, you know, hopefully getting all these new followers to your page, you want to draw them.
Sophie: Yeah, no, absolutely. That's a really good advice actually. And something I was talking about one of the previous podcasts is about having that mix of content as well. So think about the fact that people, we kind of get into that head space. Sometimes I think don't, we have like, assuming people know what we do.
So having that content that's like literally spells out what you do, what you offer so that when someone lands on your page, they're not like, oh, I don't really know. What this is
brilliant. That's so helpful. So one thing as well, I wanted to just talk about a little bit was first of all, the maker influences, right? So they're not going to be the ones that most of us are going to be like, okay, I'm going to get, you know, some celebrity to share my product, but I have worked with a few brands who have Got endorsements from the mega slabs.
So one brand I work with had a, like five or six stories from Jox [00:29:00] about their product, his daughter using their products and how much he loved it. And their sales went in saying like the, they, they couldn't keep up with them, like the traffic to the website. Like it was incredible. And actually. He had actually bought and paid for the products and did it totally unbeknown to the brand.
But also work with people who have just canvassed, you know, and just sent products to either the celebrities agents or tried to get hold of , you know, their address or somewhere to send it. Would you advise just kind of going for a punt or would you just say, you know,
Vicky: I think. What you sell, it's that value to wherever the product is worth to you? If you, I think it might be worth you sitting down and thinking, okay, how much potentially product can I afford to lose and get nothing back from it. And then obviously if you do decide to send it to Joe wicks, his agent or whoever, then you know what the potential loss is.
You're not going to lose any more, but it potentially, if they like it and they share it, it [00:30:00] could be really beneficial to you. But I think you just need to spend a little bit of time. And even just, if you're going to do gifting and speak to them directly, I think you want to sit down and think, okay, how much a product am I willing to give away for free?
I'm on a bit of a punt, but I think it's worth dipping the toe in because it can be really beneficial. And like you said, With H brands. So many times is that a big influencer has mentioned their brand and it's sold out within minutes. I know. I think it was the, you know, the school uniform stamp, the name stamps.
Sophie: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vicky: barrel randomly just posted it wasn't paid or anything. I think she just was doing her kids' school. Uniform was like, oh, this is brilliant. And the brand, I think, I think they could stamp stop testing. Posted some stories like a few days later, and it was just a video of their post bags because it had just gone nuts and in, and I think they then contacted Suzy and said, oh, thank you so much.
This has been amazing for our brand. Here's a code for you to share with their audience so it [00:31:00] can work really, really nicely. And I think it's so nice for small brands to get something like that because it just really elevates them. And all that sort of stuff. If the influence attacks them, that all that engagement, all that helps with their social media advertising, it all gives the algorithm information about their audience and people that are engaging.
So that all helps. And I think if you're, if you can work out how much you're willing to lose then yeah. I think it's worth. It's what I think what I would say sometimes. I mean, it's tricky with the bigger influences, but it's always worth looking on their profile and just seeing what their options are to contact them.
Cause sometimes when you DM them, it gets lost in the black hole of Instagram DMS, but a lot of them will have either an email address in their bio, or if they've got the contact us button, there's usually an email address. They're not always, it might be their agent, but that's just worth checking because I do think sometimes sending an email is better than sending a DM.
Yeah, Jessica is now.
Sophie: [00:32:00] Yeah. Oh my God. I know the trouble with, especially in like someone who's got a really active account, you know, everything goes into your DMS every time someone like reacts to your story or like, you know, every single thing. So like the, they just get pushed down so quickly. Don't they? And you can't like flag them or like keep them at the top.
So,
Vicky: And then there's primary general. Requests, and then there's also not a hidden, or I don't know.
Sophie: don't know. Yeah,
Vicky: easy to
Sophie: they don't make it easy now. And I think that was meant to help the like primary in general, but I just, I just find things that been sent to me like six weeks ago and I'm like, oh, I'm really sorry. I totally missed this. Okay. Fab. And then the final thing I wanted to cover really was the difference between we were talking about like the Instagram content we allow earlier, the difference between influencers and content creators and how you might work with them differently.
Vicky: I had this conversation with a couple of other social media managers that I work with least need, because we have this, we have this set up. What is the difference? [00:33:00] I would say, I mean, I do think this is me being. A little bit mean, but I do sometimes think content creator implements has just created that term because they didn't like being called influences.
Having thought about it a bit more. I think content creators, again, as the title, title suggests create really good content, but they might not necessarily be influences. So you could potentially find a content creator. Can create you some really good, especially with things like reels can create you some really good content that they then just give to you that you use as you wish in your advertising on your organically, across your channels.
But you might find that there's content creators that are also influencers. So it's a little bit of both. So there's a, there is a bit of crossover, but I think now we're seeing a little bit more people that are purely. I think it's something that is a little bit more common on Pinterest.
Sophie: Ah,
Vicky: I think con content creators, it's more, you would hire them, send them some products and say, create me what your magic.
And they would [00:34:00] just supply you with the content rather than sharing it on their, their own channels. But as I say, there is a bit of a crossover, cause there's a lot that do both. There's some influences out there that do such good content. They take lovely photos. I can create really nice stories and some really fun.
I don't know if you follow not so smug now she does some brilliant brand reels that are really funny and engaging and that's as brands. That's what you want. You want your content to be engaging with your audience. You don't want it to be dry. So I think finding influences that have got that creative.
Sophie: Yeah.
Vicky: isn't it creative flare then? Yes. That's definitely beneficial for you. And as, because especially if you're paying them, you can then obviously use the content on your own channels. One other thing to mention is if they're doing a real it's worth. They would, they would record that separately. And obviously when you're paying them, you get, see the content before for approval, get them to send you the video as well for the real.
So then you can also upload [00:35:00] it on your channel if you wanted to. And the same with the images and the stories and.
Sophie: Yeah. Okay. So that's really good. So yeah, if you're paying them, that's where you start to get A bit more of that,
Vicky: A bit more control cause you would, yeah, you would brief them. So you'd send them a brief that says, this is what you're promoting. These are the key messages, the key kind of USP's please mention this, please mention this. And then you can also stipulate in the contract that if you were a baby big brand, you want to make sure they haven't worked with one of your competitors in the last three months.
You can, you can stick to things like that. I've had high street brands where they want to make sure that if you're taking a picture of your new. Dining room table that you've been gifted. And it's, that's what the piece is about that you then don't have a load of competitive brand stuff on toxic, you know, they don't want to pay you to do a brand post.
And then all the comments like, oh, I love that bars. Where's it from? Or, and it's like a competitor brands. It's stuff like that, that you [00:36:00] can stipulate in contracts and things. I mean, obviously you will find that if it is something like a dining room table, People will months later go, oh, where is that tape?
And there's a bit of longevity in there as well. If it is stuff that people use for a long time.
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. absolutely. I think it's really interesting that mix between the content creator and the influencer who also does content. And then I guess people like Stacy filament and Jay with. Maybe not J week so much,. They don't necessarily create amazing content, but people just watch them because, you know, they're interesting and they just kind of sharing their real life.
Whereas I guess there are some influencers who actually create the most beautiful content reels or really brilliant content. So I guess it's working out what you want when you're looking at the different influences as well. Isn't it
Vicky: Yeah, I think it's whether you want something that's a little bit more polished or something that's a little bit more rough and ready, that feels a bit more natural, which I think [00:37:00] there's place there's places for both of those things. And again, I think it depends on your brand
Sophie: I
Vicky: your kind of by bears, if you like rough and muddy, then there's lot plenty of influences that are out there that do that sort of thing.
Whereas. Others that are a little bit more polished that might work better with reels. It really depends. So that's why it's worth spending time finding influences that fit within your brand and your kind of style, because that is what's going to engage the audience. And that it makes sense because the worst thing you want is for a brand influencer to do something and you go, why have they, you know, what, why have they done that partnership?
This makes absolutely no sense.
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. So just making sure that you're all kind of aligned.
Vicky: Yeah, definitely.
Sophie: brilliant. Well, that was incredibly helpful. So at the end of every episode, I always link back to Facebook ads and we have kind of touched on that a little bit, but obviously if you're going to be driving a lot of traffic to the website, you've got your pixel on your website.
So you can then be target those people. If they don't buy straight [00:38:00] away, you could retarget them with an offer. You could really target them with, you know, testimonials. Or your best sellers or that sort of thing. So just making sure that you've captured those people and then you can retarget them.
Also, so influences can be brilliant for social proof as well and giving your brand credibility. And if you do get it in the contract and they're happy for you to use on ads, you can then use the content they create. Purchase campaigns, but also like engagement campaigns to make sure that as many of your audience or new people are seeing the content they've created as well.
And you're getting like the most from your budget, right? So. So I hope you agree. That was really incredibly helpful. I thought it was fantastic, but if you're at the point where you're like, Ooh, Okay.
I really want to try this influencer thing, but I don't really have the time to work out who the influencers are and I'm not really sure what to do next.
Vicky, I have this feeling. You have a package that might be out.
Vicky: I do. I do. It's my influence a discovery package. So that basically [00:39:00] means I will have a introductory call with you. Learn a little bit more about your business. What, what your goals are, what kind of audience. You have what people buy from you. And then we'll put together a list of between eight and 10 influencers.
So I basically will go off and do the leg work because small business owners, they don't have enough time as it is. They make much, you don't have time to spend, you know, a few hours. And that's what it takes is getting into the nitty gritty of influencers, having a good old rummage around finding influences that.
I feel would suit your brand that I might have previously worked with. Their style feels right for you. And then what I do is we'd have another call after that. So I run through the influence of this sharing some insight, some content, they might've all done. Why I think it's a good fit. And then kind of hold your hand.
Tell you how you, you know, start engaging with them, make sure you're following them, liking, commenting on their posts. And then just sort of give you a little bit of a hand on sort of the next steps, and then I will send you on your Merry way. But I [00:40:00] know, I know it's quite a scary prospect, so I'm here to hold your hand.
And no question is a silly question when it comes to this sort of thing, because it's completely new, you know,
Sophie: Yeah, exactly.
Vicky: didn't start their business to engage with influencers as they started their business, because they wanted to make amazing products. So this can feel a little bit scary, but that's what I'm here for.
Sophie: Brilliant. And did you have a discount code?
Vicky: And then I do so that it's to save 50 pound on the influence of discovery call packaged. So you'd get it for 4, 9, 9.
Sophie: Fantastic. And I will make sure that I share the link to book one of those, as well as the code in the show notes as well. So you can refer back to that afterwards. So if you want to follow Vicki for more tips and advice on influencer strategy, make sure you go and follow her over on Instagram, which is at lemonade, social underscore. And again, I'll put that link in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for joining us today, Vicky.
Vicky: you for having me. It was lovely.
Thank you so much for joining me this week before you go, make sure [00:41:00] you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive new episodes, right when they're released. And if you ever enjoyed these podcast episodes, I'd really love to ask you to leave a review in apple podcasts reviews are one of the major ways that apple ranks their podcasts, and it only takes a few seconds, but really does make a massive difference to new people.
Finding me. Thank you again for joining me, Sophie, in this episode of growing pains, see you next time.
