What this episode is about
This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into how much of yourself you actually have to put online, & whether leading with your personality instead of your expertise ends up costing you clients.
It cuts both ways, which is the annoying part. Share nothing personal & you’re asking someone to hand over £30, or £30,000, on the strength of your credentials alone. Share plenty & you can end up everyone’s friend, with an audience who love you & have no real idea what you do or how good you are at it.
Sophie has been telling people she doesn’t like chocolate in the fridge for a couple of years & it still gets more chat than almost anything she posts about her work. Ruthie has the opposite problem, & an ego wound to go with it. & underneath both is the same question: what are you actually asking your Instagram to do, & is it even capable of doing it?
Key topics covered in this episode
In this episode:
The client who found Sophie, wanted to work with her, & then didn’t buy for months... & the thing that finally tipped her over
The course Ruthie paid for a whole year & went to exactly one session of, & what she’d have spotted beforehand if she’d actually looked
What Ruthie expects her own Instagram to do, & the one job she’s decided it isn’t for
“I’m qualified, so why do I have to sell myself?” & why Ruthie reckons there’s a certain audacity in that
Nearly 48 hours in a house in the Cotswolds, a conversation about Korean skincare, & what it told Sophie about who she’d been attracting
meet your hosts
Sophie Griffiths
Sophie is obsessed with working with impatiently ambitious women who want to build a business based on connection and depth and refuse to accept they can’t work less and still earn big money.
A fast talking scaling strategist who teaches women to grow their businesses with ads, offer they are obsessed with and marketing that actually feels fun.
Over the last 9 years she’s grown the business alongside 2 high energy girls, a cavapoo dog who doesn’t understand personal space, an ADHD diagnosis & strong (positive) feelings about trashy TV (yes Off Campus..) & salted butter.
ruthie walmsley
Ruthie is a storytelling strategist and recovering English teacher ( and deputy headteacher) who helps women turn what they actually think into content people can’t stop reading.
One husband, one son, one ridiculous puppy called Bernie, an obsession with storytelling and a CV that includes some of the biggest names in the online business space.
Read the Podcast episode transcript
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
SIC Ep 20
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this episode of Should I Care? with me, Sophie Griffiths.
Ruthie: Me, Ruthie Walmsley
Sophie: Hey, hey. How are you doing?
Ruthie: Very good. Very good, thank you. Just had a delicious lunch, and , I'm trying to move into a new lunch, I'd kind of overdone one. I like to change seasonally. yeah, I'm just switching it up slightly, and it was really good.
Yeah, I had a sweet corn relish as part of my salad. That was one of the changes I made. The Marks & Spencer's one. It's called Campfire Sweet Corn Relish. Delicious. Really recommend it
Sophie: Oh, that does sound amazing. , Just briefly talk me through this lunch, 'cause I'm such a lunch whore. I love to know what other people are eating. I just scoffed for my lunch, a scone.
Ruthie: Yeah, gorgeous and
Sophie: yeah
Ruthie: I respect that. I'm here for the fact that you just turned up to our call with a scarf with jam on. I was like, what a queen." So I went through a really long Caesar salad phase, I probably overextended that, if I'm completely honest. Most recently I've been roasting a chicken at the [00:01:00] weekend, and then again through the week, like a chicken crown, shredding it, and having it as like a rice bowl salad, with gochujang mayo from Marks & Spencer's. So then I put some cucumber, some pepper, some edamame beans, some sweet corn. What's the other one? I try and do five veg in it. Half a pack of like microwave rice, normally peri or like Mexican, something a bit spicy. and then my chicken, and then the mayo over the top. Really good. But you know when you just- I've gone a step too far with the shredded chicken, and I've given myself the ick with it a little bit. So today I had some, chicken goujons, like southern fried chicken goujons? Just two of those, air fryer, and then I've kept the same essentially, but I've added in the campfire sweet corn relish, and also instead of the gochujang mayo, their campfire which is like a smoky paprika-y mayo. just felt a bit different, 'cause I really try and get my five veg in my lunch, 'cause it makes me feel like a smug twat. I feel like, "Oh, God, you didn't have [00:02:00] edamame, ah, with your lunch. Sorry, I did." so yeah, it's really nice. Dead quick. By the time I, I've air fried my chicken goujons, just two of them, I've chopped my veg, my rice is ready, mix it all so it's like warm, bit wintery.
I was gonna go soup, but I start faffing then thinking, "Oh, I should have a cheese toasty with it." And then I'm getting the toasty maker. You know,it's just faff, whereas this is all very quick and clean. what do you normally have? Do you have a go-to?
Sophie: See, I just Really struggle with lunches. I will go through phases, like you say, like I'll make a chicken, at the weekend, and then I'll, shred it and have it through the week. I do love a salad in the summer I get really obsessed with Greek salad.
Ruthie: Oh
Sophie: fucking love feta, tomatoes, cucumber, olives.
oh my God. And then I'd, might probably add some chicken to that, 'cause, you know,protein.
so that I would do. I would say my, smug bitch moment of the day is more my breakfast.
I'm like today, where I'm just half-assing it, I had my breakfast at, breakfast, at, half 11.
So go for sort of a [00:03:00] brunch vibe, and that's very much like, either it's like an overnight oats or a homemade granola with high-protein yogurt, and then I'm adding, you've got your goji berries, you've got your blueberries, you've got your seeds, you've got your nuts. Do you know what I mean?
That's where I'm just like, " Yeah, this is elite in terms of the amount of vitamins I'm getting here." incredible. So good. And then that actually just offsets the scone that I need mid-afternoon. Do you know what I mean? It's like I've got the goodness in, so now I can eat all the fat I want.
Ruthie: See, I'm not great with breakfast. Breakfast is not the one for me because I don't like yogurt, I don't like milk. I'm not very dairy, and actually breakfast is super heavy on dairy. Sometimes I can go through an overnight oats phase, but I can't use yogurt in them 'cause it's just too tangy for me. so yeah, I look at other people's... I'd love to do, a granola bowl, like a yogurt My sister does it, and she's oh, she's got fucking seed mix and, she's mixed her collagen in it. there's so much nutrition [00:04:00] in it. I have to over egg it at lunch to make up for the fact that sometimes for breakfast I've either had nothing something that's not great
Sophie: I actually, as we're just talking now, I'm like, we couldn't have set up this episode better if we tried. I didn't know we were gonna talk about this at all. This is just us on the fly, guys, okay? Surprise. Okay? I genuinely wanted to know what Ruthie had for her lunch, like she hadn't even told me before the record.
However, when I was just sitting here listening to you talk, I was like, "Oh my God, this is just exactly what we're gonna talk about." Not our lunches, guys. Don't worry, this is not a nutrition episode. This is, we thought, a couple of weeks ago we were doing our, launch debrief. Something that came up for both of us was about how do you build an audience that feel connected to you or, in my language, of super fans, people that are, , connected to you, they're engaged, they're, like, they wanna work with you, whether that's a goal or they're actively looking out for offers.
They're like, they really want to be in your world without oversharing, feeling vulnerable, having, [00:05:00] vulnerability hangovers, getting rejection sensitivity when people feel connected to you and give you feedback when you're maybe not expecting it, or on a volume, of multiple people, when you're already in a delicate state.
how do you get that balance between, building a business that you feel separation from, that isn't your whole world, whilst also, letting people in enough that they actually feel like they do connect with you and genuinely, be like, "Oh yeah," I think there's no higher praise for me than when someone comes on a call with me or meets me in real life and they're like, "Oh, you're just like you are online.
you're just, exactly how you are on Instagram." And I'm like, "Yeah, I am. It's not all of me, but it's still me." So the reason why that triggered me is because one of the things where we started when we were talking about this is, my view is you've got to start small.... You don't need to disclose your entire life.
The tactic I took a couple of years ago when I realized I needed to do a bit more [00:06:00] was I started sharing that I don't like chocolate in the fridge. It's too hard. It doesn't melt quick enough. It's a weird texture. I just don't enjoy it. For me, it ruins the flavor of the chocolate.
I like a room temperature chocolate. Now, I've talked about this a few times, multiple times, on my stories and on posts, and it always gets so much chat. And it might seem like a ridiculously small thing, but honestly, I think it's these things that, change the picture
Ruthie: hard agree on all levels. And I'm just super excited to talk about this. Obviously Storytelling is my bag. I love storytelling, and so much of what you just said I could just talk about for ages. But one of the biggest things that comes up when I'm talking to, obviously I work primarily with women, is that some people find it hard to come to terms with the idea of not leading with their business and knowledge. especially I find sometimes people who are in the infancy of their business, and I definitely [00:07:00] found this myself in the infancy of my own business, there's like a, "I've got to prove myself here. I've got to prove my abilities, I've got to prove my expertise. I've got to build credibility with my audience."
And don't get me wrong, there is definitely a time and a place for building credibility. I just happen to believe that personal brand and storytelling is, the vehicle that makes that shit interesting. the problem that we've got, god, now more than ever, I think it's always existed, but with AI, now more than ever, is that, knowledge is plentiful. Education is at your fingertips. You could ask for degree level detail on any given topic via AI and have it in the blink of an eye using your personalized learning style. there's no shortage of knowledge. there is a shortage of is, I don't know, like, proof of humanity. people. and in this AI age, proof of humanity, like, "I'm a real person," I just think is even more important. And how we were talking at the start of [00:08:00] this call, actually when we were catching up earlier today, we were talking about Cavapoos. and the immediate connection you get where you're just, having this great chat, and it's not about anything in particular, but you're just, vibing, that is such an amazing version of that know, like, trust funnel. can just accelerate that by building this rapport, and it's so much easier to build rapport when you are connecting with people on easy levels. one of the things I talk about is nobody wants to be the Hermione Granger in the classroom, putting their hand up first. So when you've put a post out and there's this, of desolate wasteland of no one commenting, I normally see that as I've made it too hard for them to comment.
I haven't given them an easy in for us to just start chatting. Now, I know enough about my own methods to know that, if I can get people chatting, eventually they'll buy off me. by hook or by crook they'll buy something. Not because that's what I'm intentionally doing. Just because we build a [00:09:00] relationship, they start to trust me.
When I say something, it starts to have additional credibility because we've got that relationship. so I think at really simple base level, what it does is make engagement easy When people can easily engage with your content, not only are you building that rapport with them, but also the algorithm starts to acknowledge that they tend to like your content, which means your content tends to come higher up for them when they open their phone.
Your stories might be one of the first ones across the top, or your post might be one of the ones at the top. So it's playing into both sides of things. Yes, we're building this meaningful relationship, and yes, it's helping my position in the algorithm for my ideal clients. So it is hard for some people especially to sit with this idea of not leading with their expertise. But it doesn't mean it's not there, it's just you're using a different vehicle to get it out there
Sophie: Yeah. And I guess I would like to dig into that a little bit more because I think it is really hard, isn't it? When we think [00:10:00] about there's some weeks and months where you're just like, "Yeah, I can tell stories, like I can just share about myself. I'm having loads of great conversations."
And then if the revenue doesn't follow, that can feel really hard. So then you go into say, a launch, and you're like, I'm launching, so I need to tell people about the offer. I need to tell people about my expertise. I need to let them know why they should work with me." And I think it's quite a challenge to maintain that sort of storytelling, chatty engagement approach when you're doing a launch.
And I think it's tricky. I think we can pick up on what we were talking about a few weeks ago as well, when you become like a friend to everyone, do they forget sometimes that actually you are an expert and how much experience you do have?
Sometimes I think I definitely slip into, I just wanna be everyone's friend, and I'm just gonna put out content that like talks about my life and talks about everything. But , I am definitely,[00:11:00] guilty of then underplaying sometimes what actually is happening with clients
Ruthie: 100%. I've called you on that a few times recently, where I'm like, "Why you'll drop stuff into the conversation with me, and I'm like, " That needs to be," you know, like the results that your clients are getting. You've got, one client hit their best income month ever, and the other had just done 35,000 in a
And I'm like, "Why?" And it is easy to think that people just know that stuff by osmosis. they've just absorbed it. And I definitely felt, during my Really Good Story Club launch, gone big on vulnerability in that, actually. I'd done, a launch loud model, which was intentional as well.
I think that's sometimes where people muddy the waters slightly with storytelling and personal branding, in that there's an assumption that it's, just flowing out of me without any conscious thought, and that it's not also a strategy. feel reluctant to say that, because I don't want to make it seem disingenuous, because it's not. It is genuine stuff that I'm thinking and saying, but it is [00:12:00] also a decision I'm making from a strategic point of view to think, actually, do I think, in this launch, about my product and their fears and frustrations with content creation and how people are, struggling with it, is gonna perform better than me saying, "This is what I'm doing right now.
This is how I'm feeling about it. Oh, by the way, this is the thing I'm talking about"? So I know that's gonna perform better. I know if I did a post that was like, "Let me guess. it's Thursday morning. You said you were gonna post on Monday. You still haven't posted anything," whilst people would resonate with it, they would scroll on by. one's liking or engaging with it. Whereas if I can hide that same sentiment , oh, "Blah, blah, blah," I'm talking about that, and then I say at some point, "Which is why I created the Really Good Story Club," because I would ... had so many people telling me that it got to Thursday and they'd think, "Shit, I haven't posted yet," they're gonna- receive that so differently, because they've been hooked in by something a little bit more interesting.
So one of the things that I think is, something that I quibble about [00:13:00] with storytelling is that I think sometimes people don't realize that it's strategic. And so they're like, "Oh, I don't want to do it. what's the relevance? I just want my business to operate as my business.
I don't need to share about my personal life." I think that's bullshit when you are the business. If you're Nike, great. Yeah, you probably don't. but if you are the thing that someone's got to buy into, if I'm going to work with Sophie Griffiths, the main thing I need to know about is Sophie. Am I going to enjoy spending time in a Zoom with her?
Do I believe what she's saying? Because otherwise I could find similar versions of my teachings, your teachings, in various places. But what changes things for me- is if I'm like, "Oh my God, I love this person. I'm really vibing with them. I really buy into them." And it might be that part of what I'm buying into is the fact that, you don't think chocolate should go in the fridge.
We've had a great chat about that. Then the next time I was struggling on something, I might have messaged you and said, " what do you think about this?" Just to get your perspective on it, or I might have [00:14:00] found it easier to ask a question. But it is something that makes it harder to position yourself as that guru, that true expert.
Like, how do you feed that in? And I can see that's a difficulty. I definitely think sometimes I come across a little too girl next door, and I'm not necessarily sharing enough about my expertise, and actually that's like a real ego wound for me, because I love people to know that I'm clever. I really do
Sophie: I think we're similar in that way. I had some interesting feedback from a client when we were talking about this on a call. And she was saying that she found me, liked me, really wanted to work with me, but she didn't for a few months because I didn't really talk about my expertise or my offers.
She didn't really know how I could help her. and I thought that was really interesting. In the end, she listened to my podcast, a previous podcast, and, was like, "Then I binged all of those, and then I was like, 'Oh my God, I'm definitely in.'" And I think what's interesting about [00:15:00] that is that I totally respect what she said, and I can, like we've said, I really definitely do err on the side of I see people do, the whiteboard posts , where they have the whiteboard and they do the reel, and they like, explain something really clearly.
Or they do a carousel where it's, full of, knowledge and you're like, "Oh yeah, this person, really, like is... God, this is so good." that's a lot of hard work. To make a knowledge post genuinely engaging and useful is a lot of work, and generally, I don't have a lot of time to work on my Instagram content, so it's hard to fit those kind of posts in.
Sophie: And also, I think what it really highlighted for me is I use Instagram to grow my business. Instagram is not my business. And so actually, there has to be other ways. in the end, she listened to my podcast, and that's when she worked with me, and that's okay. it's okay that she didn't get everything she needed from my Instagram.
it's okay that she had to listen to my podcast or that she had [00:16:00] to watch my stories or that, she went on my website, and I'm sure my website probably needs some work, but I don't know. I think it's really easy to get stuck in that trap, isn't it? Of, . You know, you're posting, let's say, three times a week, and you're expecting those grid posts to, what?
Carry your whole business, convey all your personality, convey all your expertise, build authority, build trust. Obviously, we want to do those things, but that's a huge weight on one platform, one format and one platform to hold. When actually, I think really what it's about for me is, layering up the different things that contribute in different ways.
Ruthie: Totally. And actually, I've had this conversation over the years with so many clients where when you actually sometimes get to the bottom of it, what people actually want from Instagram is crackers. it is a madness what people are expecting from what was designed to be a social media platform,a place for people to socialize... sometimes,when I've worked with retainer clients or with clients one-to-one, I really [00:17:00] get to the bottom of it. I'm like, "Why are you disappointed with Instagram?" And it's because it's not selling for them. They're not getting immediate conversions from Instagram. Now, my expectation from Instagram of my own account is never that it sells for me. I want Instagram to do is make it easy for them to make the next step. Do I want my sales pages to sell for me? 100%. Do I want my sales and promo emails to sell for me? 100%. Do I expect an Instagram post that has to simultaneously entertain, work within the realms of an algorithm, and attract people enough that they're gonna read through all of it to also convert? Great if it does. And I'm not saying that social media can't convert, 'cause it can and does, think if your expectation is conversion, you only stand to be disappointed because you have got to be some sort of, you know, you've really gotta know your shit, know your audience, understand the messaging that they need to hear to be able to get Instagram to constantly convert, especially
i'm thinking mostly, most of my [00:18:00] clients are service-based, spaces. Obviously, it's different with products. you can see a product and buy it. Yes, please. Thank you. But if I'm trying to sell for a client a £12,000 program- cruise liners aren't expecting to post once about their cruise and people go, "Yeah, buying it." Actually, what they're trying to do is take them through various different, experiences and snapshots that then lead them to go onto their website where there might be, like, room tours and, full breakdowns of the menus and what the drinks packages are. I've never been on a cruise. I don't really know what happens on them, but you get the picture. I think sometimes there's, a real misunderstanding about what's possible for most of us with Instagram. Conversion can and does happen, but I think it works much better when you start to think of it as how can I get people to know, like and trust me enough that they take the next step, which for you might be going and listening to that podcast, which then made them go, "Fucking hell, she really knows her stuff." And actually, there's lots of, sort of [00:19:00] biopsychology that suggests that experience, what you're creating there, is how biopsychology works, is that people buy from people and then justify with features and benefits and, expertise and all of that stuff. there's a way that you could see Instagram as that relationship builder take the next step that then allows them to justify what they're about to do by learning about your programs, your expertise, your experience, your credentials. I think, as you say, it's okay if not everything is happening in that one post or in that top nine posts that people might look at, 'cause that's so much to ask of one platform, especially a platform that is controlled ultimately by an algorithm
Sophie: Yeah, I totally agree with you, and I think it's something that I myself know this. It's part of, the super fan system. I talk about this all the time, like the layers and everything, and yet when you're in a launch, it is so easy to get caught up in the like, " Well, this next post is basically gonna make or break [00:20:00] it.
if I don't get some sales on this, this is the way I'm reaching people." I think something that comes up for me when I'm working with clients, this doesn't come up for me personally, but maybe that's because I have an issue with my own, expertise. Sometimes if you have people who have done a lot of training for their things, they're, like, incredibly well qualified.
So I wouldn't say I'm massively well qualified. I would say I'm very experienced, and I have a lot of knowledge, but I don't have a lot of like, degrees and master's and PhDs, and ICF coaching qualifications and all that. So sometimes I see people coming in and it's like, " I'm really expert at what I do.
I have a lot of knowledge. Why should I have to sell myself? Like, why do I have to become this, personal brand? I just want to tell people, what I can do, and then surely they'll see the results and they'll buy from me. or they'll see my, knowledge and expertise."
And I think there's a real resistance to "Why do I have to be a personal brand on [00:21:00] Instagram to run a business?" Do you know what I mean?
Ruthie: Totally. And I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna put it out there, it gets on my tits. I find that, that perspective frustrating because I actually think it's got quite high levels of audacity. like, how can you expect a person to buy from you, to trust you with their income, with their money, to say, "Yeah, okay, I'm gonna hand over..."
and it could be £30 or it could be £30,000, who knows what your product is or your service is. But to say like, " actually I'm not gonna give you anything of me. The only thing you're gonna get to know about is my knowledge and my expertise." I just think, that's a lot to ask of somebody.
You're basically asking them to suspend reality and trust you regardless. It completely undervalues the power of relationships. when you look at things like repeat custom, when you look at things like even on the high street, what [00:22:00] makes somebody go back to the same places, price hardly ever... I mean, I think probably more recently, price probably is playing a bit of a bigger factor, but often what we're looking at is broader experience. it on last week's episode you were talking about Waitrose, right? Sometimes I will go to Waitrose, even though it's further away I know it's probably gonna cost me twice as much, not just because it's more expensive, but because I'm gonna see more bits that I wanna just like pop in my basket. I know that one basket is gonna cost me 60 quid, yet I still go there I'm like, "Mm, you know, are a bit wider, the lighting's nicer." It's just a nicer experience. I have a better time. So I'm costing more to go there because the experience is better. So when it comes to things like repeat custom with our own clients, how much is the experience of being in a room with us, playing with it?
I know for a fact,, I bought one course probably four or five years ago, got swept up in a bit of a launch,, there was a lot of FOMO going on. Purchased it, went to the first session and I was like, "This [00:23:00] person's vibe is so off for me." It is so different
And I just didn't engage with any more of it. Paid for it for a whole year, complete waste of money, because the person's energy, how they presented it just wasn't for me. If I'd have done due diligence and had a real good look at their content, I would've been able to see that actually, because, there was a real, journey that it was clear who they were.
I just hadn't done the proper research. But yeah, I do think it's mad when people think, "Oh, I just don't need to show that side of myself." I'm not saying you need to, confess your deepest, darkest secrets, but how, if you're not using personal branding, how are you letting people understand what it's like to engage in your services?
If your services involve working one-to-one with you or being in a group session where you are facilitating, are they getting that experience otherwise?
Sophie: Yeah. And I think what's really interesting, like you said there, you don't have to, share your deepest, darkest secrets. Now, some people will come onto my profile and [00:24:00] think it's way too much, too much sharing. I share about, , how much revenue's come in, how much my costs are.
I share about my, neurodiverse kids and how, one of them's not at school at the moment. And I do that a- because fundamentally a lot of my values are around I want women to see other women succeeding. I want to see them earning money. I want them to know that is possible for them. And I also want them to know that it's possible for them even if they have neurodivergent children, an ADHD brain themselves, or not even that specifically, but, other caring obligations.
you don't have to be a bro working, 6:00 AM till 10:00 PM to get this kind of money. that is... really, really intentional. And I have changed over time, , how much I actually show of the girls. It's very, very rare now that I'll show their full face. Normally, I'll put an emoji over it or , their face will be partially covered now, like, in the photo.
and I don't really share them on the grid anymore. It's only really in stories, but I still will talk about it a lot. There are huge parts of my [00:25:00] life that I don't share on Instagram. there's loads that, you know, stuff with, my family, Pete's family, my friends, often when I see my friends,you will never know.
And- There's so much going on, but I think because the things I choose to share, are things that maybe other people wouldn't choose to share, it feels like I'm sharing everything. I think also, this podcast, , to me, this just feels like we're having a chat. So I share, all thoughts on here that I sort of forget it's in the public domain.
which I think, also makes people feel like I'm sharing a lot. But I do think, like I've worked with a lot of clients where we've been able to work out let's just be really intentional about it. This doesn't have to feel like a runaway train. This doesn't have to feel like once you share once that, you went to shopping with your daughter on Saturday, that doesn't mean suddenly they know everything about your relationship with your daughter or who your daughter is.
Sophie: there's so much you can share and I think, that's where , I started off with the whole chocolate in the fridge, and the fact that, if you follow me on Instagram, there are a few probably core things that you know about me. That is, I go for a walk with my dog, a [00:26:00] Cavapoo, most days.
I only drink tea. I don't drink coffee. I like chocolate that's room temperature, not in the fridge. I have two girls, and if you've been following me recently, you'll know that I'm going to Australia very soon 'cause that's all I'm talking about. But there are some things about my life, and me, that you could tell me that are a bit sticky.
it doesn't really matter if you agree with them or not. Doesn't matter if you are a coffee fiend. that's fine. We can have fun conversations about the fact that I think it's, insane that you have to spend so much to get your daily caffeine fix, from a coffee shop, and I can just pour hot water in a cup.
But ultimately, it's something a bit sticky that people remember and refer to all the time when I'm talking to them, all the time. And I don't think you have to share your deepest, darkest secrets, but I do think you have to be a bit intentional about what you want to share and it's not all or nothing.
It's not like I don't want to share anything, I just want to share my expertise, and oh my God, I'm sharing my innermost secrets. you get to choose
Ruthie: Yeah, and it can be deliberate. people are always shocked when they find out, like people who I've had relationships with online for a while [00:27:00] are always shocked that I've got a personal Instagram account because their perception is that I share loads. Now, I actually probably post on average between two and three times a week. I try and talk on stories every week. Some weeks I do more than others. But the perception is that I share quite a lot of my life on - my business Instagram. Fucking hell, you should see my personal one. I really do share loads, and I love sharing on my personal Instagram.
I really enjoy it. It's a closed account. It's only people that, I'm welcoming in and stuff. I've got loads about my son on there, and so on. When it comes to the stuff that I choose to share on First Person Narrative And I really do lead with storytelling and people learning about me. But I'm definitely intentionally sharing about growing a business, because I'm aware that the women that I want to work with are also growing a business, and I want them to feel relatability, that I can empathize with how to balance that. So I intentionally maybe overshare, on that side of things. Like, okay, I wanna come up with a new [00:28:00] offer. I am gonna try and launch something, and I'm, like, share from quite a vulnerable space when it comes to that, because I think that vulnerability is refreshing for people who are surrounded by a lot of, "I've just had a million-pound launch, I didn't run ads," and all that.
I just think it's an alternative perspective, and one that is aligned with my business messaging, which is how do you make organic work for you? How do you tell stories that only you can tell? And so that's intentional. other bits about it are , sometimes I'll talk about trying to balance, like I haven't worked out as much as I wanted to lately, or I haven't been doing this that I wanted to do lately, again, because I know that in the realms of , my ideal client, they are the type of things that they will also be wrestling with. if they are a busy family person, or not even to do with their family, but they've got other big responsibilities in their life that take up a lot of time, as most women do. we know that the mental load falls heavily in our direction in most cases. So intentionally sharing things that I think will be relevant and relatable to my [00:29:00] ideal client. And also, again, remembering that we're working within the realms of an algorithm, I want people to enjoy my content. And I can ask them to enjoy it on a deep level, yes. But realistically, do I think me teaching them about content creation is that enjoyable? No, not. It's something that people would rather not have to think about and would rather have just happening without their say so.
So Think about it. How good have you gotta be at content to make educational content be so good that people are gonna follow and keep coming back for it? Now, you do see it, and often it's with whatever is really trending at that moment. like, Claude hacks, for example. AI. At one point it was, like, DM automations.
any time that there's something new that people wanna learn and they wanna learn quick, 'cause they're seeing other people have huge success with it. Yap. that was another example of it. There are things that have their moment, but often it is when there's a spotlight on something because something's new or [00:30:00] something's having a real kind of, moment in the spotlight. You gotta be so good to make knowledge-based content interesting, and you've also gotta be so good at biopsychology if you're gonna keep saying you Because I know we're told in marketing, like you this, you that. But we have to remember this isn't a marketing platform. .
I don't know about you, I'm not opening my Instagram thinking, "I hope someone sells something to me." you're opening it because you want to have a nose often. What's going on? What can I fill a couple of minutes with? And so you've got to interrupt someone in that mindset. That's another reason storytelling works, because people are opening it in the same way that they might have historically opened like a newspaper or a magazine. Something to fill the time, to entertain them, to give them a bit of an update of the world around them. No one's coming on to find out about your, know, nutrition course or Pilates course or business coaching course. They're not coming on with that intention most of the time. So partly what storytelling and personal branding does as well [00:31:00] is it interrupts people in the frame of mind they're in, rather than asking them to make an just because it's what you want to serve them
Sophie: Yeah.. I totally agree. And do you know what I was thinking actually while, you were talking about that, is there's definitely , I would say probably with my mastermind the most, but I've had this with all of my groups, is that they all really like each other. And I know that sounds ridiculous, and you're like, "Well, yeah, okay, great," but they all come in, .
i mean, there's an age range, don't get me wrong, but they're of a kind of age bracket, mid-30s-ish through to early 50s, late 40s, early 50s. There's some kind of perimenopause, menopause vibes going on. They've probably got young-ish children. They're juggling lots of things. they wanna talk skincare.
They're happy to talk about the new Marks & Spencer's range. they love food. They probably love cheese. They probably love like wine. they are really into the Celebrity Traitors. I could tell you my ideal person, okay? And the reality is, is that most of [00:32:00] my clients that come in, they all have these like common threads.
And it was most apparent to me, I think, when I was running the mastermind, and I did a retreat, and we went away on the first retreat overnight. And it was like, oh my God, It's one thing , being on Zoom and being like, "Oh, everyone seems really nice," or, "Everyone's quite chatty," or, "We've been in Slack, everyone seems nice."
It's a very different thing having everyone in a house for sort of nearly 48 hours to be like, "Oh my God, , are we gonna get on? Is there gonna be awkward silences?" And one of them, at some point in the first evening, was like, " Oh my God, I'm just having the best time." They'd just finished chatting like Korean skincare or something.
And it was like, I feel like I'm away with really good friends, but who also get my business. And it was just this like, oh my God, this is so nice. And when we were talking about it, what we realized was, or maybe I realized, was they all bought into me And I'm the one that holds those values. I'm the one that holds those threads.
I'm the one that's like, you know, we went to, a [00:33:00] countryside house in the middle of the Cotswolds. I didn't fly them to New York. Do you know what I mean? Because that's what we all wanted. we wanted space and to feel cozy and away from everything. I'm , the thread. And so the more me, and I think this really helped frame it for me, the more me I can be in my content, in my, social media, but also in my emails and, the way that I speak on my sales pages, , in everything that I do, the more me I can be, the more I will attract clients that are...
, like that, and that therefore get on. Because especially with group, the value of everybody getting on and forming community is so high. . i know the Masterminders, lots of them are still in touch. they all support each other. They go to each other's events. and same with, the other groups I've run as well.
everybody is so kind and supportive. that is such a amazing energy to have in a group, rather than feeling like, nobody talks if I'm not in there posting," and "I'm the only one asking questions," and, "Oh, I don't wanna answer [00:34:00] that question 'cause I don't know. they're not very similar to me.
They probably won't think like that." everybody knows that they can be there and support each other, and I just think that's just, it's such a benefit
Ruthie: It really is. And and in the same sense, you are attracting the right people, so your content is acting like a megaphone of you, in a way, and people either do like that or they don't like that. And there's no jarring experience when they then come behind the paywall and they're like, "Oh, no, this is exactly what I was expecting," because this is an exact representation of, her content does that. what I sometimes have seen is an uber professional sort of version of content.
Sophie: boss
Ruthie: Girl boss, yeah, like really, "Oh, this is my experience. This is my credentials. I do this, I do that." And then when they come behind the scenes, it's something quite different. That's a really jarring customer experience as well. So there's a benefit in attracting the right people so that also, when you talk about making an offer, easy to sell but also easy to [00:35:00] run, one of the things that I think makes an offer easy to run is when people aren't surprised by who you are. that your vibe is so consistent with how you've been presenting online. And getting your vibe across via educational content it's hard. It's easier if you use personal branding or storytelling as the vehicle to get that knowledge across because it's, bookmarked or surrounded by who you are and,what you believe in. then when they come in, it all just feels really aligned and not shocking and, it makes it easier for me. I don't want to have to go in the Bloody Good Story Club and every time I go in, I have to do an adjustment of who I am as a person. I have to adjust, put like this robe on of how I'm gonna help you go viral, or, this is how you need to do it today, no excuses.
if that was the vibe in there, would be a performance for me every time. Whereas if I can just go in as a continuation of myself in business mode, that's so much easier. It makes it all feel so much more pleasurable as well. So it actually is good as a business owner. I'm not saying, [00:36:00] like you, I don't give everything away.
There is all sorts that goes on in my life that people don't know about, the bits that I do give away allow me to make that sort of continuation of who I am in front of and behind the paywall just feels really organic
Sophie: Yeah. I absolutely agree as well. You're right, it definitely makes things easier to sell and easier to run as well. okay. we've gotta finish up there 'cause honestly, guys, I've gotta go and get my daughter from school and I'm gonna be really late if we don't.
son too. We've really gotta go, and we're batching these before I go to Australia, so truth time, this is a slightly shorter episode.
But I think probably in summary, Ruthie and I are both firmly on the, personal branding wagon, loving the storytelling. That's probably no surprise to you. and I think I will definitely be thinking about, , how can I weave in my expertise a little bit more, but in a storytelling way, rather than just going for the easiest post I can think of in the morning
Ruthie: Definitely. And I'm gonna do the same because sometimes I take the shortcut [00:37:00] because it's like, "Oh, I can do that really quickly. The other one might take a bit more thinking." So yeah, I think I will do that as well
Sophie: Okay, we will see you same time next week.
Ruthie: Bye-bye everyone
