What this episode is about
This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & guest co-host Ellie Swift) get into whether you actually need a low ticket offer to sell your high ticket one. Sophie is in Australia, in a real podcast studio for once, & Ruthie is back next week.
Because it’s become one of those things everyone has decided is compulsory. Something small, something cheap, a little experience so people can get to know you before you ask them for the big money. Ellie reckons if she had a pound for every person who’s said it to her she’d be a very rich woman, & she’s got a very clear view on what has to come first, which isn’t where most of us start.
She also hasn’t launched in a year, which is a fairly big call for someone who built a whole business on launches, & Sophie has just announced the same thing. So we get into what goes in its place, & how fast it tells you the truth about your business.
Key topics covered in this episode
In this episode:
The question Ellie asks before anyone decides whether they need a low ticket offer, & the order she says you have to build in
“Safety revenue”: what Sophie checks before anyone joins a group programme of hers, & what she’s looking for when it isn’t there
Why a weekly webinar shows you every broken thing in your marketing within weeks, & the bit Ellie makes herself sit with rather than fix
The new client 3 webinars in at 27 times ROAS, & what Ellie told her was coming next
The DM Sophie sent after finishing a course with no support attached at all, & why Ellie still brings it up
meet your hosts
Sophie Griffiths
Sophie is obsessed with working with impatiently ambitious women who want to build a business based on connection and depth and refuse to accept they can’t work less and still earn big money.
A fast talking scaling strategist who teaches women to grow their businesses with ads, offer they are obsessed with and marketing that actually feels fun.
Over the last 9 years she’s grown the business alongside 2 high energy girls, a cavapoo dog who doesn’t understand personal space, an ADHD diagnosis & strong (positive) feelings about trashy TV (yes Off Campus..) & salted butter.
ruthie walmsley
Ruthie is a storytelling strategist and recovering English teacher ( and deputy headteacher) who helps women turn what they actually think into content people can’t stop reading.
One husband, one son, one ridiculous puppy called Bernie, an obsession with storytelling and a CV that includes some of the biggest names in the online business space.
Read the Podcast episode transcript
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
SIC Ep 21 - Ellie Swift
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care? with me, Sophie Griffiths, and a very special co-host. It's
Ellie S: me, Ellie Swift. Ta-da.
Sophie: Oh my God, guys. So for regular listeners of the podcast, I am in Australia filming this- Yay
in a podcast studio no less. Yes. It's very bougie. It's very next level compared- ... to my room normally, where I look like an absolute mess. So excited to have Ellie with us today.
Ellie S: I'm so excited to be here. I feel a bit of responsibility, like I, I need to deliver well on co-hosting duties because you two just riff and have this amazing energy and I feel like there's big shoes to fill right now.
Sophie: I know. Ellie, I know, Ruthie and I, we are unique. However- ... Ellie, if anyone can feel that energy, it's you. I mean-
Ellie S: take it. Thank you.
Sophie: even just in the car on the way over here, it was, like, seven different directions of t-
Ellie S: putting the two of us together. We're just,
Sophie: are just so chatty. So I think we're gonna be absolutely fine.
For those of you that don't know Ellie [00:01:00] she's been my coach for one-to-one... Not one-to-one. That's not true actually, guys.
Ellie S: The opposite.
Sophie: in an ideal world. No, I've been in her mastermind for just over a year now. I've come to Australia to come to her retreat. That's how much I love her.
Ellie S: how much I love that. So happy you're here. It feels surreal to
Sophie: Yeah, it was such a hardship, guys, coming over for the retreat.
Ellie S: tough. It was such a big ask. Such a
Sophie: big ask. Thank you. Such a tough life. But before that, I did Ellie's program, The Mastermind Model, so that's how I came into her world. That was just before I did my big Mastermind launch- Yes
where I also launched my MiniMind as well, made loads of money, locked in revenue, and then six months later, I was like, "Ellie, I would like to come into your world please and make more."
Ellie S: Your DM slide still to this day is one of the best DM slides I've ever had.
I don't think I've ever told you that. But you
Sophie: But
Ellie S: Oh, yay. You know when you create a program, so you know, for context I'm such a high-ticket girlie. I've been one-to-one, then masterminds, and then I create this group program around how to run masterminds, and I'm, swirling in there.
There's so many people doing their thing, and I can see [00:02:00] them going through it all, but I haven't... I don't know half of them. And are they loving it? Are they getting a result? Your DM slide's like, "Hey, I'm in your program. You've changed my life." You said something along those lines. I did. I did that.
And this is not about me or the program, but y- you were so beautiful, and it was like a real life-changing moment for me. And then I was like, "Excuse me, can we just get on a call immediately?" Basically breaking all the boundary rules of why you have group programs in the first place. But we did a podcast interview after that.
Yeah. And 'cause I really wanted to get to know you and was just so obsessed with your DM, and I instantly loved you from that DM slide. But yeah, just one of the best DMs I've ever got, so thank you for that.
Sophie: Do you know, let's like, let's just put that out there actually for everybody. If you are doing a course- Yeah ... or something that is less high touch- Yes
Ellie S: Yes. Tell them ... it's a
Sophie: course, but yeah, there wasn't wasn't high touch. No. There wasn't a huge amount of support around it, and also because I was in the UK, any calls that you had, like- Yes
It wasn't always that I could come to them. So- Yes ... and I still got loads from it, obviously. But I, I actually still remember leaving you that voice note, because [00:03:00] I think I just woke up one day and I was getting ready, and I was like, "This is mega what I've done." Oh my God. And it really wouldn't have happened without that course, and I bet she doesn't even know.
Ellie S: had no idea. Like- I've got
Sophie: She didn't know ... yeah, I bet she doesn't even know. I was like, do you know what? I'm just gonna Instagram DM her a- and just tell her.
Ellie S: It's so true, isn't it?
Even when, Like we had an example, Jackie, inside our Mastermind, she shared something with all of us the other day. Side note, I love the women in our space, like everyone just speaks so highly of other women. Yeah. And it's one of my favorite things. And she was like, "Oh, I downloaded this thing, and just sharing with you all 'cause it's so awesome, and I went on to do this other thing."
I won't give it away because, she hasn't given me permission to talk around, about it. But I was like, "You need to tell that person that you're recommending this thing. Do they know? Because that would make their day, their week." So it's so true. We need to tell people when we're getting value from the stuff they're doing.
Sophie: 100%, especially when we're doing, I think, more and more, like if you're doing things that are relatively low ticket.
So I bought something for like $500 [00:04:00] the other day. Yes. And it's incredible. It's so amazing. But, and it's it's not like it's a 27 pound thing. It's like it's a proper course.
Ellie S: I wanna know what it
Sophie: I know, I'm gonna tell you later. Great. It's really good. I will probably, I will share it on the podcast as well, but I'm gonna finish it first.
And so it's high enough level, it's high enough investment that it's a proper thing.
Ellie S: Definitely. But,
Sophie: yeah, there's no interaction. It's just- Yeah ... a do it yourself thing. Yeah. And I just think the more we're doing things like that, the more we do need to just be really proactive and tell people- Yeah
'cause people put so much time and energy into it. What I'd also say is I'm a massive high ticket buyer, but I also buy quite a lot of low ticket. Yeah. I love seeing what other people are doing- Yeah ... how they're running things, what the behind the scenes looks like, and there's a lot of things that aren't very good.
Yeah. Frankly. So when I do find something that's good, I'm like, "Okay, I really need
Ellie S: tell people." Wanna shout about it. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And not that it's about this, but I spend so much of my life believing in karmic energy and karmic reward.
And there will be days, if I'm ever feeling low in business for whatever reason, because [00:05:00] business, the fir- one of the first things I do is I'm like five people that I can go and say thank you to, give a compliment to, give some sort of message to, and it always turns my day around. So there is so much karmic reward in doing
Sophie: Oh my God, I love that. Okay, I'm gonna do that. That's such a great idea. Because there's always things that you can do. Always. There's always. Always.
Ellie S: Always.
Sophie: Yeah. And actually, okay, here's a link for you guys. Talking about low ticket stuff.
Ellie S: Oh my God.
Sophie: Oh my God, I'm getting really good at this, guys.
Ellie S: it. Let's do it.
You're so on for somebody who should be jet lagged right now, by the way.
Sophie: I know, I'm so on. I'm actually, I'm high as a kite. I got 12 hours sleep last night. I don't think I've had 12 hours solid sleep in a really long time. And, yeah, sure, I was jet lagged and sleep deprived, but to be hon- I have two children, I'm nine years into motherhood, nearly 10 years into motherhood, and still one of them doesn't sleep through the night.
I'm actually always jet lagged, so to get 12 hours sleep, I, honestly- Amazing ... I'm really living my best
Ellie S: Yes.
Sophie: Yeah ... okay, so what we thought we'd talk about in this episode- Yeah ... is low-ticket, high-ticket. Yeah. How do we... So [00:06:00] Ellie is the queen, I would say, of like masterminds in particular, but high-ticket clients.
Like- Yeah ... I'd say lots of your clients within the mastermind, we all attract then high-ticket clients as well, most of us. Yeah. And we- but we're also not all just running one program. So although we all have like core program and the thing we grow, I would say most of us have other versions of the program, other offers whether we bring people in with paid workshops or sprints, or we run free workshops.
There's just a lot going on, isn't there, to bring people into our world. So we thought today what we would explore is how much of that do you need around a high-ticket offer?
Ellie S: Yes.
Sophie: like here, I, honestly, if one more person says to me, "I think I need to do some kind of low-ticket experience, something small to help people get to know me before I can sell my high ticket," I'm gonna be a very rich woman.
And it's not that I fully disagree, like I've just myself come off the back of a sprint and a free workshop. Yeah. But I do think that especially maybe people who are a little bit earlier on, but also I'm talking to myself here as [00:07:00] well, we can over nen- we can over-engineer things, can't we?
Absolutely. So high-ticket clients, do we need something low-ticket to bring them in?
Ellie S: Okay, so the question we need to ask first of all is where are we at in our stage of business? 'Cause that's gonna inform the decision completely. So if you are early stages of your business, even pre-framework, so you're still, like, piecing together your thing, your specialism, or you're pivoting and you're reworking out what that is, which a lot of people are doing in 2026, the absolute best thing you can do is focus on high-ticket.
A- and I say that truly with no bias intended because if you primarily focus on high-ticket, what you're gonna do is you're gonna become so great at your thing, your sales process. And I say high-ticket right now, high-ticket one-to-one first. If you have never worked high-ticket one-to-one, and we're both group specialists so you know we're not being biased right now.
High-ticket [00:08:00] one-to-one first so you can bed down your thing, then high-ticket group. Only then when you're wanting to scale, consider lower-ticket experiences because that's the way that you're gonna pump volume into your higher-ticket things. Because we talked about, we just recorded a podcast for my podcast as well, and we talked so much about how people are so obsessed with volume right now.
I wish, if I could have a wish in business in 2026, it would be that people were as obsessed with recurring revenue as they are with volume. And actually, people are as obsessed with recurring revenue, they just think that volume is the way to get recurring revenue, and it's not, and we talked about that.
And so focus on high-ticket, generate recurring revenue, get 10K, 20K a month under your belt, and then add in these lower-ticket programs is my obviously very strong opinion.
Sophie: I've... You're really clear on that.
Ellie S: Very clear on the opinion. [00:09:00] Yeah. This is, and I think this podcast is more let's discuss this, and I'm like- There is one way.
There really is
Sophie: one way.
Ellie S: So I don't think I d- Sorry, Ruthie I really this is just not, this is just not how it's meant to go.
Sophie: No. I would say we do have quite strong views. Unfortunately, the most common thing Ruthie and I say generally is, "I totally agree." Yeah. We're not like a- we're not like apples and oranges.
We're just like, "Yeah, no, you're so right." It's
Ellie S: right." This is the way.
Sophie: is the way. You're right. We're gonna declare it." And in this instance, Sally Swift, I totally agree.
Ellie S: Great. No I'm on theme for the podcast.
Sophie: so on theme. So I always say this to clients as well, like, when you go- are doing a group offer, the thing that I ask people before they come in to any of my programs is, "Do you have safety revenue?"
Yeah. Yeah. And that generally comes from one-to-one high-ticket or done for you sometimes for my
Ellie S: my clients.
Sophie: Yeah. Because ultimately, when you're growing a group, it's never as fast as you want, it's never as smooth as you want. Yes. There's always gonna be the bad launch. There's always- Always
gonna be the months that don't come together. You need to have that foundational [00:10:00] revenue before you start to then layer groups in. Exactly right. Because
Ellie S: right
Sophie: groups are a lot, and I see so often I see groups advertised as oh, you've got all these one-to-ones in your diary stacked. Go to a group and you can have one call a week.
Yeah. And I'm like, well- It's
Ellie S: one call a week.
Sophie: It's definitely... it might be one group call a week. In my program- Yes ... I have one group call every two weeks. Yes. Yeah. But my God, there is a lot of other stuff you're doing. Totally. There's a lot of other support. And even if you get the actual group really slick- Yes
the marketing, the promotion, the sales, the calls there is so much. It's a business model. It's a whole business model. It's not like a little add-on that you just put on and think that's cool. I'll just add that to the side."
Ellie S: Totally. So
Sophie: if we are... I actually remember doing a pyramid diagram of this.
At the bottom you've got your foundational safety revenue, then you have your group program, and then the little triangle at the top of the pyramid is what I call the cherry on top. Yeah. It's your low-ticket offers. It's your
Ellie S: It's your experiences.
Sophie: Yeah. So how do we differentiate, I'd love your view on [00:11:00] this, between free workshops, which we all know can be great to bring people in to our high-ticket offer-
Ellie S: Yes
Sophie: Versus a paid workshop versus...
surely that then equates quite nicely into maybe a little mini sprint or a three-day thing. Yes. Or is it actually a low-ticket course? I think for me, the thing that people find hard, and that I sometimes find hard is it's a bit of a slippery scale, isn't it? Yeah. Interesting. Of like, I started with a free workshop, and then I'm like I want slightly more qualified leads.
And then I'm like I give them an experience of me. Or do we do a free fi- five-day thing, three-day thing? Like, how do you decide how you're gonna sell your high ticket versus what is a distraction?
Ellie S: So what you're describing, I think about them in two different ways. So I think about your value ladder as being what are your main offers that you're always selling inside your business. So starting with high ticket first and then you layer in. I go high ticket, then layer in low, then [00:12:00] consider mid-tier generally.
Not always, but generally. Whereas what you're describing there of having a free workshop or a paid workshop, I think about that as what's our sales promotion activity that guides people consistently in our sales system to our mastermind or our high-ticket offer? So I think about them as two different things, and I find that works so well because you're not getting distracted.
You're really clear on just the promotions that guide to your high-ticket thing, versus, oh, I'm gonna add in a low-ticket funnel that's always on, for example, and it's got ads cranking to it, but I'm gonna do that later on. Because where people can get so tripped up is they go, "I'm gonna create a low-ticket funnel, and that's gonna be," and you would see this all the time with ads, "and that's gonna be," we've talked about this, actually, "That's my vehicle to get people into my mastermind."
It's like, that works, yes, but you're talking about probably a 6 to 12 month cycle to get that really cranking in a typical [00:13:00] version, and even then, there's a lot less certainty and a lot more variables around that. Whereas, if you go all in on, say, a workshop, whether it's free, paid, or a boot camp structure, you're far more likely, 'cause you've got that buying moment, to actually get the sales into high-ticket.
So I always think about the value ladder and low-ticket offer as being different to what you're deciding to do as a promotional activity to get people into your high-ticket. So promotional activity I think about as three different categories. You've got your free workshop, whether it's through a launch or an always-on funnel, like a webinar funnel, and we can talk about that separately if you like.
Yes. Or a paid workshop. I recommend paid when you've already got enough of an audience established, and your main priority is to take that audience through to being buyers. And so we know that if somebody purchases from us once, they're far more likely to purchase from us again. The data changes a little bit, but I think it's around [00:14:00] about they're 50 to 70% more likely to purchase again.
And but we only wanna do that when we've got enough of that free audience established first, enough people in our funnel. So free, paid, or a longer three-day boot camp or a sprint like you've done. Those things obviously have such a specific key role as part of a promotional activity. And when you think about it as being for the purposes of filling your high-ticket thing, but not necessarily part of your value ladder, then you make the right decision.
Sophie: Yeah. I love that so much. I think what would be really helpful actually because I've- I forget how people don't know all this stuff they know about you. Let's dig into it. So this time a bit earlier, I think, this time last year-ish, you did a big launch, right? For your mastermind model. You'd come back off mat leave, and you were like, you'd done it once, went on mat leave, and you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna launch it again."
Yeah. And went really well, but you made the decision after that, that actually you didn't wanna launch first- Yes ... business. So you haven't launched in a year,
Ellie S: Haven't launched anything, yeah. [00:15:00] So I think I'd even made the decision even before that. Oh, okay. And I can't quite rem- I can't fully remember. I could be wrong.
Yeah. Don't quote me on this. But I just was getting to that point where I was like, I've always run my business as a launch-focused business, and it was always like, next launch will be, generate next bit of cash flow. Next launch, generate... And that was fine, and we've always done really well in our launches.
But I, I think it was partially business, partially lifestyle, where I was like, I'm a mom. I also really recognize that my needs have shifted in business. I used to love the dopamine high of launches. I used to work in events when I was younger, and then just always really drawn to that.
And I think something happens probably in your 30s, 40s, and you start to go what does it look like for me to just be constantly regulated, and how do I run a really regulated business?" Especially, I'm ADHD adjacent, never diagnosed, but we know this about me as well. And I really just needed to go, "What do I need to do [00:16:00] here so I can just flip the business on its head a little bit?"
And I was saying to you off-air before, this year we haven't done any launches, and we'll change that next year. Niv doesn't fully know about this yet, so Niv, if you're- Hi ... listening in to this, surprise.
Sophie: We love a surprise on the podcast.
Ellie S: Love a good surprise ... people would even listen
Sophie: to my podcast, like Nicola, she's always "
Ellie S: oh." Oh, good to know.
Sophie: she's like, "Oh, that's really helpful to know."
Ellie S: to know. My current mentor literally is queen of the bootcamp. Like, how could I not, right? Yeah.
Sophie: Amy Porterfield, for the record, guys.
Ellie S: And so I think that I needed this year, though to flip the business around, and I think that's a useful thing to say on air as well, because I've been in business for 10 years.
Changing the structure of my business in a really big way, it takes time. And I think about it as when you're starting out in business or you're starting out with a new offer your offer and your business is the small sports car that it's really easy to maneuver. But the bigger your business gets, the more [00:17:00] systems, the more infrastructure you put in place, actually it's more like a truck that you've just gotta be a bit more strategic about turning around, and actually that truck is bigger.
It's housing more it's gonna ta- it, it's doing more and it's scaled to do bigger, better things, but it's just gonna take a little bit longer to pivot around if you wanna do it well. And so that's really what we've needed to do this year, is go, "All right. What does it look like to just change the business, flip it a little bit so that instead of running launches as our main way to generate recurring revenue, the main way we generate recurring revenue is actually through this consistent, we're doing this webinar funnel.
That's gonna be the way we do that program, and also we've got more wait list strategy now for our mastermind, and then we're gonna layer in some bigger launches again next year."
Sophie: I love that. So I think it'll be... 'Cause obviously, I declared on Instagram a, a few weeks ago when this goes out, it'll be a few weeks ago, that I'm like, "I am, I'm stopping launching." Yeah. I'm very similar. I'm like- Yeah ... feel [00:18:00] like I'm you, but a few years behind you, even though you're younger than me. I think
Ellie S: different timelines, different things always, right? And I think it's a really strategic move
Sophie: Yeah. We've talked about it a lot, haven't we? Yeah. And I'm the same as you. I love launching. I actually don't hate it. I love the dopamine, the ADHD, the deadlines, the live delivery- ... the the sales coming in afterwards. It is, it lines up with all my ADHD vibes.
Hello. But with everything that we've got going on at home at the moment, with Eliza at home, with, everything that's going on, what I think what just was really clear to me in September was I can launch, I'm great at launching, I get good results, I got great sales, I got great clients. Yeah. That's not enough.
Ellie S: Totally.
Sophie: It's not enough anymore. I also need to be regulated and have capacity and 'cause you very helpfully supported me through it, but there were times when it was like my nervous system capacity just wasn't enough to hold- ... everything at home and with the launch. But you're right, I love that analogy of the car and the truck because it's not a case of "Okay, [00:19:00] cool.
We'll just switch into that then." Yeah. There's quite a lot of intentional pieces that have to go into place. Yeah. So how did you approach the year? You're doing weekly webinars at the moment. Yeah. But that isn't how you started, is it, k- in terms of turning the truck?
Ellie S: So I think in your year goes the way you plan it, and then the way that it actually unfolds. And my plan initially was weekly webinars are gonna start in March, and that just didn't
Sophie: They started in September?
Ellie S: Started in September instead. Yeah, I know you. And I ... another thing, I'm actually gonna talk about this a bit on retreat next year, 'cause I've been in the year of the arrival fallacy, and it's been a really fascinating year for me personally where I've gone,
Sophie: i've
Ellie S: got everything I've wanted this year, and how do I navigate being somebody who's still so ambitious and has a next level that I wanna run at, whilst also deeply being in this season that I've desired for my entire life?
Yeah. This has been a, a year where everything I've ever wanted has [00:20:00] been right in front of me, and it's something that I've grappled with all year and I'm still in that, of not fully knowing what, what go and stop means. And what I will say though is that I've removed any stress or pressure around it, or any, "I should be this," or, "I should be that."
I'm in a place of like deep contentment- Yeah ... around it because I've prioritized what's been really important for me this year. And so a lot of it, gratefully, has been the first half of this year it was like I gratefully, and I sound like an absolute wanker every time I say this, and I've gotta find a way to not sound like a wanker.
I gratefully have a lot of demand for our mastermind.
Sophie: I don't think you sound like a wanker. I think it's just true, right?
Ellie S: you're inside it, and it's so good. We have incredibly high retention and we have the most amazing community, and we have a wait list of so many incredible people, and I'm so grateful for that.
And so the start of this year ... And I'm not resting on that. I'm showing up, [00:21:00] I'm visible. The business continues on, but there's been a lot of
Sophie: time." Yeah.
Ellie S: We have time, and I've just really allowed myself to be in that this year. It's turning in a whole other direction.
Sophie: here for it. We love a t- we love a side tangent.
Ellie S: And it's been great. So I just really allow myself to move with that process and take my time with it and go if I launch it in September instead, that's totally okay." There were some things I wanted to change structurally with the Mastermind model so we did that.
So it's working really
Sophie: Yeah. I love that. I think also in the, earlier in the year you did some paid workshops,
Ellie S: did that as well,
Sophie: Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting. Done well. Did you? Yes.
Ellie S: it. Loved it so much. It was great. The reason for that, I think I told you, was because I wanted to add on some curriculum- Yeah
as well. So that worked really well. And would continue doing that absolutely, but I'm just really loving the weekly webinar funnel. I just, I love it, like more than I thought I would.
Sophie: That, I think this is so interesting. So I really grapple with this, oh, yeah I'm like, "Oh my God, Sophie, just do it." And then I'm like- Yeah
"Can [00:22:00] I do something every week? That feels quite hard for me." Yes And it's not the logistics- That's true ... is it? Yeah, because- So just do it ... yes.
Ellie S: So something that I'm really realizing, obviously coaching a lot of people through it as well, is that a weekly webinar will highlight, and I've never heard anyone talk about this by the way, so I'm really fascinated if there's content around this anywhere else.
Yeah. But a weekly webinar will quickly highlight all of the areas in your marketing, your sales, your program, and your business, and your systems that are not working.
Sophie: Yeah, that's so true. It's,
Ellie S: like the fastest way to see all the things that aren't working. Yeah. And you have two choices in that moment.
You can either run at it and with it- Yeah ... and go, "I'm on this train, let's go." Yeah. And allow yourself to sit with the things that you're not able to do in the timeframe that you want. I said to Jane the other day, we, she goes, "Our cost per lead's increased a bit." And I said, "That's okay. That's on me. I haven't done the creative that's required."
Yeah. I think she's grateful she has a client [00:23:00] here that really understands the process for her, yeah.
Sophie: Ellie's ads person, by the way.
Ellie S: Yeah. And she's like, "Thank you for just being a human." It's really great to see, makes me, makes all of us recognize that's just the process here.
Yeah. And so I have to own that. This funnel could be better. I have too many things on to run and get the optimized cost that I know I can get at the speed, so my job is to sit in the discomfort of being okay with that- Yeah ... and running a funnel that's not as optimal as I know it could be because I haven't had the time to do the things.
Yeah. Think how easy it would be to tap out in that moment.
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that is the t- most challenging thing of it, isn't it? It is Of knowing that there is, if you run it weekly-
Ellie S: Yeah,
Sophie: you get the feedback straight away, great
Ellie S: reps.
Sophie: The reps are in, but if you can see something's wrong, I imagine it's really tempting to be like, "Okay, let's pause.
Let's just pause." Exactly "Okay, because w- there's something that's not perfect here. There's something that's not optimal." Yeah "There's no point spending the ad
Ellie S: spend-
Sophie: Exactly "There's no point doing it [00:24:00] again." I think- I
Ellie S: do that every week.
Sophie: Have you? Okay. It's really nice to know that you wanna do that sort of stuff as well.
Ellie S: totally. Yeah. And then I just coach myself through it- Yeah ... and go, "Nope, I'm committing." Yeah. And I think, I don't feel like I have anything to prove to myself. I'm just like, "It's gonna happen when it happens. It's gonna work when it works." Yeah. The joy I've just really been in this, the joy is in the journey of it all this year.
There's just a, I- I think that I'm in a real season of having spent so much of my life putting so much pressure on myself, being like, "Where do I really need to release the pressure?" Yeah. On myself and in my business, to love everything about it even more. Yeah.
Sophie: I totally get that, and I do think there is something f- to be said for, committing to a plan-
Ellie S: Yes
Sophie: then doing it, and giving it the time.
Ellie S: Exactly
Sophie: knowing that it's not gonna be perfect all the time- Exactly ... and keeping going with it. 'Cause I see that a lot in ads. People run them for a few weeks, and they're like, "I don't know if it's the right people. I n- I don't know if they're gonna convert."
Yeah. 100%. "I don't..." And it's yeah we're looking at f- like at least [00:25:00] three months before- Yeah ... really understanding if these ads are working. What I guess is really nice about running something more frequently, like a weekly webinar, is that you do know they're the right people or not- Exactly right
very quickly. Exactly
Ellie S: Yeah. The other thing I'll say about weekly webinars, and I think this is, again, it's an exhale for peop- because people can get really hung up on things not working quickly, is, we've got a lot of clients inside our mastermind that are running them, and they're getting great ROAS.
It's 12 months in the making to get- Yes ... it really great. Yeah. And I just think that's really important to say. Because I think that a lot of people go, "I've gotta make this amazing really quickly." And I've got a new client, she's done three of them, and she's at 27 times ROAS, and I said to her, "That ROAS is gonna go down-" Yeah
"as we scale." Yeah. "It won't sustain that." And so again, it's just that, like we've just gotta have these conversations more- Yeah ... so that people know what typical looks like. Yeah,
Sophie: 100%. I think, and I think this is it, with the, whatever you're running, whether it's a [00:26:00] membership, a high ticket offer, a, like any kind of group, and we talked about this a lot on Ellie's podcast, which you guys should definitely go and listen to, by the way.
Oh, my episode is obviously really
Ellie S: was incredibly good. I already said to Sarah, I was like, "Your clients are coming from that episode." Yeah. So good.
Sophie: preparing myself. Obviously, there'll be an influx, ... But you should listen to it, 'cause we talked about it quite a lot. But it's actually not about static numbers.
It's not about how big your audience is now. It's not about the clients you've got now. It's actually just about, like growth and moving forward- Yeah ... and what is your intentional strategy. Yeah. And I think that's where I am very what's the word? Guilty of committing to something, doing it for a bit, and then feeling like it's not working, so tweaking it, changing it, pivoting it.
And I think sometimes that works really well in that I'm listening to my clients and I can definitely make changes that work. Other times, I'm not, like digging in and committing for long enough. Yes. No, totally. And I think that's really hard. But I don't think, I think for me, the summary of all of this- is [00:27:00] find yourself a mentor that's gonna hold you to account. Totally. Because you still have, like coaching, right? You- Always ... it's like, no, you're not just doing it on your own and being like- Always ... like the perfect accountable human to yourself. No,
Ellie S: always and that's the thing is I'm the first to share what's working, what's not working I try to be at least.
Because I also think that, I have the conversation a lot with clients, you and I have never had this, I don't think you feel this way, but where they're like, "I am a mentor to so many, I've gotta be perfect." It's like, do you know how good life gets when you remove yourself from that stress and pressure?
And actually, it's just not true, because we only excel, like, when we have things that we do well, that we don't do well the whole thing. But yeah, I've always got mentorship for myself. I just don't think that you can walk your talk- Yeah ... if you aren't also always being coached, mentored, supported.
And for me, I'm putting myself inside some of the best [00:28:00] masterminds that I think in the world, because I'm like, that's my job Yeah ... is to see inside the best ones. Yeah. So that I can always make ours better and make recommendations on how they can make theirs better as well.
Sophie: Yeah, and I think for me, we're gonna wrap up in a sec, but I, that's why I join.
I do love one-to-one. One-to-one is great, but I do also think when you're in a group, A, you're accessing obviously all the other people and you can see what they're doing, which is so helpful. Yeah. But also I'm working with you, you're then working with someone else. Yeah. And we're all, because of the way that we all are, like we're all passing that back through to our clients.
Exactly
Ellie S: right. Exactly
Sophie: right ... what an up level- It's the best ... up volume.
Ellie S: It's the best thing ever, and even, next year I might go to Nashville twice, and I literally this morning was thinking, that's probably all up, with the coaching plus going to Nashville, I'm looking at probably 100K.
Yeah. And I'm gonna take every single thing I learn and give all of that to my people. Yeah. And so it feel, a- and so I'm like, "That feels really good." And [00:29:00] as you say, you want that to be something that occurs, where it's just "Yes, of course." A- and I think because I work with such high-level women, to me it just, it's such a natural, circular thing.
I just want everyone to be like, "Yes, be excited with me because we're, this is for all of us together." Yeah. Because our, the way we structure my mastermind is so there's no hierarchy. It's not, that's, it's just not the vibe. And I, side note for anyone who does run a mastermind, I think I've never talked about this before, but one of the ways that you can create really great retention is if you create that really non-hierarchical structure.
Sophie: Yeah. Oh, my God, 100%. There's no hierarchy in your mastermind at all, and there definitely doesn't feel like there's any kind of levels- Yeah ... or we're all just in it together. And I think you and I both do this, but sharing, I think sharing what's not working- Yeah ... within the mastermind.
I share with mine really in Outrageous really openly. Yes. What's not working, what I found difficult, what I'm learning from it, what I'm changing from it.
Ellie S: 100%. And I
Sophie: think, honestly, sometimes that's as [00:30:00] useful as- Agree ... what you should do as well.
Ellie S: I would, like what I was saying before, it's like you don't have to worry if you mess up because it just becomes really good learning.
Exactly. It's for your people. Exactly,
Sophie: good learnings.
Ellie S: people who love that. Yes.
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Super good. Ellie Swift, have you found your co-hosting
Ellie S: I loved it. I feel like I s- I wasn't a great co- I feel like I just answered a lot of questions, and you really led me through this process.
And I think 'cause we did the podcast episode just before, I was like, "Now I get to chill a little bit." But that's not actually the role of a co-host. So what I mean to say is that I think that Ruthie does this better, and that's the reason why she is always the co-host. Yeah.
Sophie: She is amazing. Although, what we have acknowledged between us is that she is always after free coaching generally. So I end up being the one that's in your seat. So I'm just being Ruthie today.
Ellie S: Ah.
Sophie: "Yeah, tell me more, Ruthie."
Ellie S: Like- Perfect
Sophie: Love it ..."Tell me more, Ellie." Like- Love it ..."What's going on? How would you do this?"
Ellie S: I love it.
Sophie: so I think it's actually just role reversal. I've I love this role. Yeah.
Ellie S: Perfect.
Sophie: I'm like, "Yeah, tell me exactly how that happens."
Ellie S: Love, love [00:31:00] it.
Sophie: worry. We're all good.
Ellie S: We're all good. Natural coach. Yeah. So good. Ellie. Thank you for having
Sophie: Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being on.
Ellie S: So good. We're gonna go have the best time in, on retreat now.
Sophie: Yeah. We're gonna go, we're actually right now gonna go and get some food and drink. Yeah. And then we are going down to the retreat next week. So obviously I will have a full debrief episode for you, if we haven't already done it, 'cause in all honesty, Ruthie is brimming with excitement.
She's- Oh my God ... yeah, she is she wants every single specific detail. So-
Ellie S: need a couple of episodes
Sophie: yeah, exactly. If we haven't already done it, there will be a full debrief
Ellie S: 'Cause you need the episode that is your experience of being away from the family- Yeah ... and just getting that time for yourself. There's obviously the business piece. There might be, like, a retreat piece. There's multiple... There's a miniseries.
Sophie: I think there's a... I do think there's actually a mini-series in this, guys. To be honest, I could do a whole episode on the business class experience. So maybe we start there.
It's gonna take a year to get through the entire experience- ... but we will, guys. We will.
Ellie S: Yeah, I love how many
Sophie: are, like, sick [00:32:00] with jeal- not jealousy, sick with "Oh my God, shut up and leave me alone."
Ellie S: I love it. Or
Sophie: most people are like, "I'm living vicariously through
Ellie S: Yeah, it's great storytelling. Yeah. You're really good at the storytelling around it. Yeah. So good.
Sophie: So good. Amazing. Thank you so much, Ellie. Yeah, thank you. And we will be back next week.
Ellie S: I won't be.
Sophie: No, with Ruthie.
Ellie S: Thank you for having me, everyone.
Sophie: Bye.
