Ep 5: Should I Care About... Low Engagement, The Freeze Before A Launch & Posting Through Summer?
What this episode is about
This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into the thing that happens to people whose businesses are actually working, & which nobody wants to say out loud. Your content isn't getting the engagement it used to, & it's quietly doing your head in.
Because the number was never really the point. It's the flat feeling when a post you thought was genuinely good lands with nothing, & the low hum of wondering whether people have gone off you. Ruthie teaches this for a living. Sophie has been doing it for 9 years. Neither of us is above it.
So we pull apart what low engagement is actually telling you, & what it definitely isn't. The invisible actions nobody counts. The accounts with brilliant engagement & no clients. The client who let go of her numbers entirely & signed 3 high-ticket clients in 2 months, none of whom ever engaged with a single post.
Then the bit that catches you off guard, which is the freeze that arrives right when you need to sell. Sophie went into July planning to promote Outrageous, had 4 or 5 posts mapped, & published one. Not because she doesn't know how. Because knowing how has never been the problem.
And underneath all of it, the question Ruthie asks first every time, & the one nobody wants: is your content working, or is it just a bit boring?
Plus what to actually do with the summer, which is where the collective belief that everyone's checked out becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Key topics covered in this episode
In this episode:
Ruthie's fix for the freeze state, which takes about 10 minutes & involves making nothing new
The 3 things Ruthie looks at when content isn't landing, starting with the least popular question of all: is this actually interesting?
Why the same post lands or dies depending on whether you tell it in first person, & what to swap
The far more useful signals sitting in your business that nobody counts, & what to look at instead of your likes
What to actually do with summer, & why scheduling 6 weeks of content is a recipe for disaster
meet your hosts
Sophie Griffiths
Sophie is obsessed with working with impatiently ambitious women who want to build a business based on connection and depth and refuse to accept they can’t work less and still earn big money.
A fast talking scaling strategist who teaches women to grow their businesses with ads, offer they are obsessed with and marketing that actually feels fun.
Over the last 9 years she’s grown the business alongside 2 high energy girls, a cavapoo dog who doesn’t understand personal space, an ADHD diagnosis & strong (positive) feelings about trashy TV (yes Off Campus..) & salted butter.
ruthie walmsley
Ruthie is a storytelling strategist and recovering English teacher ( and deputy headteacher) who helps women turn what they actually think into content people can’t stop reading.
One husband, one son, one ridiculous puppy called Bernie, an obsession with storytelling and a CV that includes some of the biggest names in the online business space.
Read the Podcast episode transcript
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
SIC - Episode 5
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care? with me, Sophie Griffiths.
Ruthie: I'm me, Ruthie Walmsley
Sophie: Hello. How are you?
Ruthie: Thank you?
I'm hot, actually. I said really good on autopilot.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I'm hot, I'm sweaty, and it brings out a little bit of a frayed version of myself, I've noticed. How about
Sophie: I mean, I'm so hot.
I will tell this hilarious story because it is really, really ridiculous. But I had the best idea this morning, which turned out not to be the best idea. So I've got a pod in the garden, which unfortunately in this weather just does not cope well. The sun swings round about half past 10:00, and by 11:00 it's basically like I can't sit in it.
And so this morning I had the great idea, because we were recording this at 11:00, so I was like, if I'm gonna be able to record, I'm going to have to find a way of keeping the sun out." So I thought what I'd do, at great... You can imagine me, trying to drag this across the bloody garden, dragging this giant umbrella across the garden, and I was like, "What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna set it up so it almost becomes like an awning to the [00:01:00] pod."
So it'd block the sun out, to create this little thing. I was like, "Oh my God, this is a genius idea."
then I started a call at 9:30, and, , I... it was pretty clear to me about 20 minutes in I'd essentially actually created a hot box. So what actually was happening is just I was just trapping the hot air, and as the sun moved round, it just got hotter and hotter, to the point where there was, like, sweat dripping down my legs.
I had to call them afterwards and change my underwear and my clothes. It was unbelievably horrific. and so now I am sitting in my daughter's bedroom in my pajamas because that was just the only alternative I had
Ruthie: Yeah. I just think we're not built for this, are we? In the UK, we're not quite accustomed. I'm sure we're gonna get more of it. We're not quite accustomed to this level of heat.
And I'm fine with it if I'm at a swimming pool, maybe with a cocktail, my
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah
Ruthie: That's what I'm good for. And with, a cold air-conditioned hotel room to go
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. [00:02:00] es- essentially in a foreign country.
Should we care about the heat? Well, we should if it's really distracting, and I don't have anywhere to work, and it's really stressing. It's reducing my capacity essentially is what I'm saying, the heat right now.
Ruthie: Definitely. And , how has work been for you amidst the heat? Have you had a good week?
Sophie: , I have had a good week. , Actually, I'll put the link in the show notes. I finally, and this has been like a long-term project for me, as I've been trying not to work outside of my boundaries. One of the things I have just been trying to do and just never quite makes it before I have to stop work is my lead magnet.
I have a brand- I know, woo. She's got a brand new one. , So . basically, it's my three strategies that I use with my clients and with myself to actually get people to turn up live to your master classes or workshops. Very specific, very niche. However, I do think there is so much focus on workshops and getting people there, like the strategies to get loads ofpeople there.
But in all honesty, it doesn't really matter how many people you get to sign up. It really matters how many people watch [00:03:00] it. especially come and I think, like experience you live. I know that if someone comes live, they are much more likely to buy from me than if they don't.
I will put the, link in the show notes. , What else happened to me this week? I was asked to do a foreword of a book
Ruthie: Oh my God.
Sophie: I know, who so that was really lovely. I'm very excited. I can't wait to talk about it more. , overall, really good week for clients. I'm finding lots of clients are having some really good, like building good momentum, getting really good wins, which I think is funny because I don't think that necessarily is the vibe.
Like it feels a bit, oh, summer, nobody's buying. I think they actually are if you're actually out there. and I have started promoting Outrageous again. Which I'm very excited about. , I've got three spaces, and, , if you sign up before,
24th of July, then you get an extra month free because I feel like-
I'm, like, I'm trying to make it sound not like a bargain basement, like six months for the price of seven. , One of the biggest things I
have within Outrageous, even though it's already six months, is this feeling of like, I'm not making the [00:04:00] most of it.
I'm going on holiday for a week, I won't be able to use it. it's an investment, I wanna make the most of my money. And Itotally get that. Also, I think after our conversation, about boundaries last week, which was really good and, it did makereflect quite a lot on it. What I realized was I'm probably not taking as much time over the summer because I'm like,
I need to be available for my clients. I want to be available." and actually I feel like if I givepeople an extra month, which I'm thinking in my head is basically two weeks in the summer and two weeks at Christmas, 'cause if you sign up now, you'll have both. Actually, that means I can step away for two weeks.
Ruthie: Yeah, you
Sophie: I get that too. So it's like you get the whole extra month, you still get the full six months. You can go off and take time off as well, and actually all get like that permission to have a break. Sometimes you know how we said, "I just want someone else to give me permission," this is my way of givingpermission to do that.
Ruthie: Love that. Absolutely love it. So you've had a great
Sophie: I have. What about you?
Ruthie: Oh, well, I've had a slightly shambolic week actually, someone needs to tap me on the [00:05:00] shoulder around end of
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: and be like, "Wait, Ruthie, remember you fucking hate July." I'll be like, "Oh, yeah, no, thanks for reminding me of that." because what happens in July is obviously if you are, , the parent of a child who, I think this is quite specific to primary
Sophie: Yeah. Agreed.
Ruthie: July is crazy
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: So you are invited to things, they've got to remember things, they've got a different uniform on a different day. So that's one level. Then I swear to God, every single person in my family, their birthday is in July. So my son's birthday is in July, my husband's birthday is in July, my dad's birthday is in July, my brother-in-law's birthday is in July, my wedding anniversary is in July. It's just a shit
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: So , I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to think of everyone's birthday presents. I'm trying to make sure that...
Because that's really important to me. I love doing nice things for people. So I'm trying to do that. Will wants a birthday party. I keep trying to... I'm like, "Oh, are you sure? Something smaller." And he's like, "Let's go big."so doing that. We also had some vouchers expire [00:06:00] that got bought for our 40th birthdays, and we'd both just turned 42. And so I contacted the hotel group that our friends and family had bought us these amazing vouchers, and I was like, "Look, I'm really sorry." And they were like, "You can use them, but you've got to use them now." So we went away for one night last week. It was gorgeous. Just me and Tone. We haven't done that in years.
We had an amazing time. But of course, I don't ever set anything up properly. So I just was like, "Well, I'll do a bit more work the day before, and I'll do a bit more work the day after." And then this week, Tone was up some, for some awards in London, his team were. So I was out Monday and Tuesday morning. So I've just felt chaotic, is what I have
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And I share it not as an example of like, "Oh, shesounds like a nightmare to work with." I'm hopeful that my clients and the ladies in my group and stuff have had a seamless experience. But in terms of
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I'm like and just need to remind myself actually, it's just me.
I'm just trying to over-deliver. , Everyone else is fine. It's deadlines I've set myself. It's expectations I've put on myself. [00:07:00] So I was trying to remind myself of that. I was like, "Look, nothing's gonna burn down here. Tell your nervous system no one's about to get
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: You can just carry on and do as much as you can and communicate clearly with the people that are, , waiting on things
so Yeah. I feel like I, do just need to set some sort of massive reminder that I fucking hate
Sophie: Yeah. , A few years ago, , when it was the King's coronation. Do you remember they put in, anbank holiday around this time? I can't remember exactly when it was, May, June time.
Ruthie: May, I think
Sophie: And obviously we've already got two bank holidays in May, and there's Easter holidays, and then you've got May half-term, and then you've got, like, Julyend of school, whatever.
I remember , that time basically being, like from the start of the Easter holidays through to the summer holidays, just being like, "This is fucking horrific. I think I worked out I had two weeksin that whole run where I had a full five days working. And, I'd not taken it into account at all.
I'd not really planned for it. I'd probably, , overstretchedgiven too high standards, but also taken on too much work, said yes to too many things. Just not [00:08:00] really prepped for it being like, you know, with like, the summer holidays and either I think December, there's that real mental , I don't know, bookmark in your head that's "Ooh, lower capacity, lower capacity, like , must, make sure that I don't overstretch."
But with that period, I just didn't do it. And I was like, "This is horrific. I am never getting myself into this situation again." Which I think, I've done better this year, and I think over years, I've definitely put in things to stop me. My business works more without me,
I think, do you know what? I think ,, during that summer, I was like, "I need help, proper help in this business.
I can't do this anymore." And then I hired Nicola, probably a couple of months after that, my ops manager.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: I was like, "This is not sustainable. I can't do this anymore."
Ruthie: It's just too much, isn't it?
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: But Yeah.
Thank God for AI.
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: and Claude have been working very hard for their subscriptions over the past few weeks, helping me organize parties, helping me think of birthday gift ideas, helping me find some shortcuts in my personal life, 'cause,, I've really leaned on it.
Sophie: Yeah. I'm [00:09:00] partof, Nikki Cross, who I will again put her link in the show notes. I'm part of her inner work, club, and It's so good. She has lots of, mindsetstuff and, But she does a session every Monday at 9:00, which is called Hour One, and it's basically she takes you through, a whole series of things.
But essentially, it's looking at what's going on for you this week? What's your capacity? What are your high-value activities? What do you actually have time to do? What do you not have time to do? and then we do, , a monthly one as well, which would definitely benefit you for July. But one of the biggest things, that we do is, ancheck on...
And it's not just, like, where am I in my cycle is one thing, but also ,for me, it was like I know it's gonna be really hot this week, and I know that it's gonna reduce my capacity. I know that once it gets to the afternoon, I'm gonna really struggle to work. I'm gonna really struggle to concentrate.
I don't have anywhere to go because I'm not gonna be in my pod. oh, yeah, it's Eliza's birthday, so I'm gonna need to plan for that. or,we're going on holiday at the end of the month, so I'm gonna have to take some time, or I have to do EHCP at the moment, so I'm gonna need some head space for that.
And I just think it's so [00:10:00] helpful to look at more than just what's in your diary. ' it-
Ruthie: definitely
Sophie: than that, isn't it? It's so much more than just like, "Oh, these are theI've got in." It's like, how much capacity do I actually have to work?
Ruthie: Yeah, and also, account social events as well. things that are lovely, but , they do take up capacity. It's even things like, "Oh, shit, I'm going out with friends. I'm gonna have to wash my hair. I
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: I can't do another layer of dry shampoo. I've been sweating all day.
I'm gonna have to plan that in. It is so many different things. One thing I have done that I will tell you
Sophie: 嗯。
Ruthie: is, I had an idea of building something myself that was gonna help with diary management, but then when I asked Claude, Claude was like, That already exists.
you don't have to give yourself something to do." I was like, "Fucking hell, great." So I'm, , Gmail, and we have Google Home as well. we've got the little GoogleHome speakers. so I've got, the Gemini assistant on my phone. I've split out my calendars, so I've got a work calendar and a home calendar, and honestly, told me , what to do. And it was like, make that's called Walmsley [00:11:00] HQ, it's just like anything that's happening, it gave me, a formula tofollow. So it'll say the person's name first and then what it is, and everything like that. how to invite my husband to it.
I said, "I need you to do this. I cannot be the diary manager." And he was like, "No, that's great. I'm up for it. whatever I need to do, I'll do it." So he's on board, and basically now I've got it, that on my phone I can just, say, "Hey,
Sophie: Yeah ,
Ruthie: we're going to the pub at 7:00 for dinner with friends. Can you add it to my calendar?" And it adds it to the calendar, and it sends a notification to
Sophie: Bravo. Bravo. I love that it's already available for you
and you
Ruthie: I'm just... ...
Sophie: I didn't know you didn't have to build an entire app. You just had to actually use it what's available. That is genius. See, that's the kind of home life AI that I feel like is just mega helpful
Ruthie: So helpful. And we've got Google
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: we've got one in our bedroom and one down in, the kitchendiner. and so I showed it to my little boy, 'cause he loves to know what's
Sophie: Sure. Yeah
Ruthie: c- he can say, when have I next got football [00:12:00] practice?" "Hi, it's Wilf. When have I next got football practice?" And it brings up a list of all of Wilf's
Sophie: Wow
Ruthie: Tone has to go to London with work quite a lot, and so.. i showed Tone, like he can say, ", Hey Google, , when am I next in London?" And it's like, "You're inon the following dates."
Sophie: that so much good. And honestly, it really didn't take me very long to do at all. And so I'm really glad that I didn't spend, fucking hours on Base44 trying to learn
Yeah. Yeah.
Ruthie:
Sophie: yeah,
Ruthie: yeah, just in case
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: Because so many of my friends are like, "I need to go back to a proper calendar.
I'm completelyoverwhelmed." But that's just another thing for me to do, to write it on the calendar for everyone. Tone will be able to just speak into his phone as well and say, "Can you add to the calendar that I'm gonna be in London on this date?" And then I'll get a notification, which means I can adjust my
Sophie: Yeah. I love that.
Okay, so what are we talking about today? So today we are talking about should I care that I'm getting low engagement on my Instagram/Facebook or LinkedIn? But we will probably talk about Instagram primarily because that is our baby.
Ruthie: Yeah, we're Instagram girlies.
Sophie: That's [00:13:00] just where we're at.
So I mean, Ruthie, I think you should kick this one off 'cause this is your baby
Ruthie: I do. I have a lot to say about this, and .. i speak to so many women who are just like, it's really hard to maintain a positive attitude when you feel like your content is not getting good engagement, and you feel like it's failing. and everyone has different criteria for what failure looks like.
Some people will look at 100 likes and think, "God, that's shit." I got 100 likes, I'd be dancing on the rooftop and be like, "Oh my God, I'm going viral." not getting engagement looks different for everybody. And I suppose, the first thing tosay is there's so many different reasons why that can be happening.
I think the first one I wanna say is that we live in a time now where isn't as clear-cut as it used to be. are actually taking the physical step of engagement less and less. Likes happen less. Comments happen less, one thing, I tell this story quite a lot. I was at, , one of my clients, Lucy Sheridan, we were at her mastermind day, and we had this amazing girl there.
She's such a [00:14:00] babe, and she was an artist, an incredible, , mural artist, just massive murals. I'll pop a, link in the show notes. And she obviously has this gorgeous content because it's often featuring these amazing massive pieces of artwork up buildings and all sorts. And she's like, "You know, got bugger all." And, she was in a funkabout it. "Often we're having to, really work hard to get this content, and then it's not getting anything." At lunchtime, she was scrolling on her phone, and she was like, "Oh my God, look at this," and showed us this piece of art by another artist. And I was like, "Oh my God, that's gorgeous."
Everyone loved it. And then she just carried on scrolling. I was like, "Wait, wait, wait. Hang on. What did you just do?" And she's like, "What do you mean?"I was like, "You just stopped. You were so impressed with this piece of artwork, you stopped and showed it to other people, but you didn't hit like." And she was like, "Oh my God.
Yeah, I didn't." And I was like, "That's what's happening all the time. Invisible actions." I'm a bugger for taking a screenshot of something and sending it to my sister on WhatsApp. rather than sending it through Instagram, I'm like, "Oh my God, look at this top," or, "Oh, this recipe looks great." Or I'll send the link via, , Instagram or,, [00:15:00] via WhatsApp And so the first thing to say is I think we need to be realistic about how often are you liking things? How often are you taking the time to comment on things that you love? we're not always taking the physical action that represents how you feel about engagement. And that's the same for people when they're looking at your account.
That's the first thing I think we should all be a little bit more mindful of
Sophie: Yeah, I totally agree. And, I, do think, , I don't know where I heard this, it's probably a long time ago now, but it was something about when I was first learning Instagram. Like, if you want acommunity, you have to be a good community member. And , I have to s- I'm, I don't think I'm the best. I,think other people probably do more than me.
But when I go on there, I do try and keep that in mind. I do really try and at least like things. , I try and train my algorithm so when I have new clients, I will try and train my algorithm so that I see it more. 'Cause I don't always have the head space to go and seek it out, but I'll try and train my algorithm.
I will always try and like them things. I will, , comment on them if I can. , But , , it is hard, work. , It's [00:16:00] much to just, , zone out than think of, , a relevant thing to say in a comment. , I think especially when people are just, , scrolling a lot, , it is hard , to then engage.
And I think you're right, you have to remember that. I think I've said this in a previous episode, , with social media, I've never really been bothered about followers. It's never really been a massive goal of mine to, , , have, , thousands and thousands of followers. , But engagement,comments and likes, I knowinside out, , how many I get.
And, , , when I put a post out, I don't know if it's anxiety or whether it's just that, , I will feel like if a post has, , done its job or not based, mostly on the comments, I have to say. , I love a comment. I love a comment. And , I still get that feeling if I p- and I know this is ridiculous, I know I need to get over myself, and I am actively working on it.
But , if I put a post out and it doesn't get that many comments, I, feel a bit embarrassed.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: What if people see this, and, then they'll know it wasn't very good content? , And then they'll ... I don't know. Like, where does that go? It's a really hard feeling, to, move on from
Ruthie: I totally still [00:17:00] get that as well. And I preach not to. I'm like, treat it all as an experiment. That's the thing that I overwhelmingly say to people is that actually the reason why social media is incredible for our marketing across the board is that we can use it as a testing space. We can test hooks, we can test ideas, concept, messaging angles, and if they don't work, then you just move on because you've gotta post the next day anyway, or you've gotta post again that week. So I don't practice what I preach because sometimes I do ... If I think I've done a good po- And it's always the
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: think are
good, I reckon. You're like, "Oh, I've really spent some time on this. This is feeling really good." And then it doesn't land how you want it to. And I do find it a bit embarrassing, I think especially because I work in that space, I sort of carry the worry that there's an expectation that they should look at my content that the engagement should be really high, because can I teach other people how to do it if I can't do it myself?
But I just think we have to be, I don't know, just real about the fact that so many people are, like, having a wee at the same time as
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: or [00:18:00] they're making a cup of tea, or they're waiting for their child to finish swimming lessons. , I say all the time, people have got split attention, And no matter how good you are at multitasking, and I know that lots of us pride ourselves on it, split attention is not a skill. you know what I mean? It's just what's happening in your brain. your attention is split.
You can't give things the same amount of attention 'cause it's split. And so people are in split attention mode, we're catching them in the moments of in-betweens, In between a client call, or in between school pickup and making a snack or, whatever it might be. , So that's the first thing, I think, is to just, , loosen your expectations a little bit about people being, , on their phone like, "Oh my God, I must do this."
They're not treating it like a task. Instead they're doing something and if you manage to catch a like, bloody hell, how good must that
Sophie: Yeah
Yeah. that is so true. And I think as well, it's really interesting, isn't it, when we think about , is it just about likes and comments? I think that's what you were saying at the beginning, isn't it? , Actually, we're taught, I think, is it likes, comments, even saves and shares. Like, yes,it's all anindication of engagement, [00:19:00] but in reality, , I have worked with a few clients in the past who've had, , engaged Instagram accounts.
, Across any metric on Instagram that you could measure, you would say they've got an engaged account. But was that converting to clients? No. And ,, they were feeling like, "Oh, I'm doing all this. I'm getting all this, , visible, , engagement." So theopposite problem almost of having no engagement, but they were getting absolutely no clients.
Like, nothingwas going on behind the scenes. People weren't taking the next step. And I think that's the other thing, isn't it?
Ruthie: Totally. Absolutely., We were chatting earlier about this, and I just think that because there's so much education available about creating content, you can literally open your phone and probably the first thing that will come up is, this hook or, you know, my feed this week is full of the fact that single post images are back.
if you just do a single post, it's back. And so you're like, "Oh my God." It pulls you , and is dragging you in different directions. and comparison's a really hard thing, where you see other people maybe in your space who seem to be getting crazy good engagement, and you don't know why theirs is and yours isn't, and [00:20:00] we can just get pulled into it.
But I think one of the things that we need to get better at is asking the question of ourselves, "Do I think my content is working?" Not, do the metrics show this? Do I think it is? I've got a client, , , she hangs out in one of , my groups, the Bloody Good Story Club, and she has really unlocked something for herself with content.
And , it's really working for her, and. She's bloody prolific, is what she is. She's been posting every day. Now, that's not something I suggest necessarily, but she's just in the flow. She's got to flow state. We love this for her. But on paper, - this is her words, not mine.
She's like, , I don't give a shit about my engagement anymore. I'm using it as a tool of expression." And the reason that she feels that she can keep doing that is because for the two months that she's been doing that, she's picked up three high-ticket clients, none of whom were necessarily obviously engaging with her content, but all of whom have referenced it in the discovery calls and coming on board with her. So if I were to ask Emma, "Is your content working for your business?" She would 100% say, "Yes, it is." And she would be answering that [00:21:00] based on the evidence in her business, not necessarily the evidence on her professional Instagram
Sophie: absolutely. I mean, a, I love that for her. , Me too. And I totally agree. I think there is something about when you are posting content, whatever's happening on the dashboard, you can sometimes feel that momentum. , You can feel there's people inquiring, maybe people are replying to your stories more, you're just having more conversations.
, People are just coming in. And I think, you know, we were talking before about how I only posted five times in April and five times in May, and yet I had these, like, megamonths.I was, like, almost the opposite. I wasn't posting every day. But it's almost like what I was posting, I'd taken the pressure off myself.
And so it was just creating conversation. It was fun. It was like, I'd spent under £100 on, which was, like, my, my sad lamp and my track suit bottoms. , But it brought in these incredible clients. And I do think , I talked a little bit about this on my stories last week, but in July was meant to be my, , sales month. I'm up Outrageous. I want to welcome in some incredible women. , And then I had this sort of freeze response [00:22:00] for, , the back end of last week, where I just, I think I posted once in the week last week, and yet I had plans to post four or five'cause I was , "I'm ramping up.
I'm getting out there. I just want to talk about the stuff. I've got loads of stuff to talk about. I could post about the podcast, about my new lead magnet, about Outrageous, about the workshop I'm running next week, about so many things." And yet I did literally nothing. I posted one talk to camera reel that I had filmed three weeks before. I just, I couldn't create any content. And I think part of that was that feeling of like, "Oh my god, what if I do start promoting it and no one engages or no one applies and
it just doesn't land how I want it to." And I think it's so hard, isn't it? Because I'm like, what if I put this time and energy into content and then no one engages with it, and then it doesn't get hardly any reach, and then nobody sees it, and then what's the point? And
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: you know, I'd love to tell you that this, like, getsless and less as you, , earn more money and, , grow your business.I mean, wouldn't that be lovely? And I am really working on it, and I did have to do quite a lot of work with myself around, , moving myself through the freeze state into, , [00:23:00] actually, , posting, which I have done this week. But it's, it's, really hard, and I think it's really hard to get to that point.
I love that for your client, where , she's like, "I don'tcare what it is because Iknow it's working behind the scenes." I've definitely been in that before, but I struggle to stay in it
Ruthie: Yeah
And it is hard. Emma's, like, the anomaly. You know, I'm not saying ... not everybody in my club feels like that. And , I think, for her, she's just kept herself buckled up for so long that actually this feels like
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And so she's, really leaningin. I think what I always suggest to people when they're in freeze state, and I see it so often when it's a launch, we start overthinking everything, and we suddenly think that it is, organic social media's job to convert our clients. can tell you now, that is not gonna happen. If it does, brilliant, but Conversion is not what social media is for. It is not what it is for. It's really hard to get a conversion through organic social media. My advice when people are in that freeze state is find a best performing post, reuse it, change the CTA.
Sophie: Nice. Yeah[00:24:00]
Ruthie: That's
Stop overthinking it. When you try and orchestrate a sales post, 80% of them are shit.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: They are boring. They are focused on the things that you think they need to hear rather than what they actually wanna hear, what they actually wanna know. I never want to be sold to. I am never actively going out to think, "Oh, sell to me." I wanna get stuff. I wanna find stuff out, sure. But I think so many people get in this funk when they're in a launch, and then overthink it, put something out, like a carousel of testimonials or a slide by slide of what module one, two, three. Oh my god, guys. Stop
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I've done it myself. You can scroll back, and you'll see it in my own content.
And you'll also see that it got shit engagement and nobody cared. , People's expectations about what they want from content don't change just because your intention has
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah
Ruthie: So I always say, go back, find your best performing content, whack a new photo on the first slide, change the CTA on the last slide, and move on with your day because
you would've [00:25:00] been loads better off doing two posts that you just wanted to do that might have been about things that were random, popping in the PS. PS, if you wanna know, I've opened the doors to this, this, or this,drop me a DM. At least then you're getting eyes in your space, and let people do the digging to find out about the
Sophie: Yeah. And I guess that is the problem, isn't it, with low engagement. So we say,, it's not all about the metrics and,, okay, it is hard to get likes and it is harder to get comments, I think, than it ever has been.
But
if you're not getting engagement, then , it, really does strangle the reach and it
Really hard than anything. I'm putting all this time and energy in. , I don't mind if loads of people are seeing it and not engaging, but ultimately loads of people are not seeing this. , And if you're not feeling the momentum behind, , how do you help those clients? , . , I mean, sorry, guys, like, spoiler alert, there aren't any tips or tricks.
Like, there's nogoldenbullets that Ruthie's about to share that's suddenly gonna skyrocket your engagement. But I know that when , you've, I mean, you've, looked at so many clients' accounts and just generally, , when someone's like, "I'm just not getting the engagement. What can I do?" Like, what are the things that you tend to look at that need to change?
Ruthie: Yeah. [00:26:00] So there's normally, , a fewthings that, that I would look at to say, "Is it this? Is it that? Is it that?" I think the first one I'm always asking, and it's not popular, but it's like, "Is this interesting?" , do, I care to read this? Is this boring? Is, the actual question.so first of all, you really have to think about your ideal client. do they give a shit about this? Or do they know that they need to give a shit? Because often they should give a shit, right? We're like, "I can tell you how to do this better." But they might not know yet that they need that. We've all got blind spots. We've all got things that we feel a bit defensive about or things that, shadow work, whatever it might be. the first of all boring? Is what I'm saying genuinely gonna be something that stops someone in their tracks and says "So you talked about your 10 items that are under 100 quid or whatever." That is interesting content. I want to
If you said, "Let me tell you 10 things about my super fan system or my outrageous program that does..." I'm like, "Well, I don't know what that is, so I don't care to find out." If one of the things that you talked [00:27:00] about in your slideshow was something to do with your product, great, because I've also found out about these great jogging bottoms that you're talking about and, a product that you've bought that's . give you natural light or whatever it is. That's interesting to
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: So my first question is always, , is itinteresting? is it actually going to do the job? another thing that I'll look at is whether people are falling into the trap of creating content that what they think content looks like. So is it ten a penny content that could've been churned out by any number of AI machines or not churned out by any of those but still, boring as fuck educational content on a Canva slideshow. Some of those can perform really well. You will probably be thinking as you're listening to me, I've got examples of where that's worked. I've saved a carousel, but . it will have a pull factor that's different. So for example, educational carousels about Claude at the minute will perform really well because there's such an appetite for that one thing. That doesn't mean that you can galvanize the same appetite talking [00:28:00] about your
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: Okay? So you sometimes have to look at that. So I'll be looking to see, have they got unique perspective? Is there something here that is so useful that I have to stop? And often the way that we can activate that is by using personal storytelling. So first person narrative, "I learned this. I'm sharing it with you regardless. I wish I had known this. here's what I can tell you." So I'll be looking at thein which they are ... giving the education. We all want to educate, but we need to do it via a vehicle that allows people to feel like you've got a unique
Sophie: Yeah. Love that. , I, saw apost actually, a carousel on Claude, our favorite. 'Cause you know they've got the new, what's it called? Fable. , And it was someone who is like an AI person, and I thought she did a great carousel, and it was basically like, "I had 48 hours with Fable. This is what I did for it to completely change my business."
And- Wow ... basically she went through, these were the seven prompts that she used, and she like detailed them all out, and then obviously she had a CTA 'cause [00:29:00] she could get them emailed to you. Lovely. But I did think you could very easily, , change that carousel to something like, , , the seven, prompts you should use when you get access to Fable.
Nowhere near as engaging, right? Could be exactly the same content, but the fact that it was like she is already running her business incredibly effectively with AI, and yet she felt in one of, like some of the prompts were things like, Analyze all my current agents and where there's gaps," and, "Assess all of my brand documents," et cetera.
So it's like she's upleveling her business, her AI from this like new... Oh, it must be interesting. If she's really engaging with this, this isn't just some likebackend, oh yeah, there's another version of Claude available. This is something I need to pay attention to. But that was really good
Ruthie: And she's delivering that via her experience, her knowledge. So you feel like, "Oh, shit, she knows more than me. She's better than me, and now I'm getting to steal the approach that she's
Sophie: Yes
Ruthie: Not, I'm gonna have to listen to someone tell me boring things I don't wanna[00:30:00]
don't give a damn about Fable. I only give a damn about the things it can do for me. We are all operating from a selfish place when we're online. How can you inform, entertain me? How can you explain things to me that I'm gonna need? And so , one of the first things I definitely look at is how are they telling these stories? how are they relating this to people? And well, sometimes, if I can see that someone is doing a fantastic job with the way that they're telling the stories, their hooks are great, they look good, they're using candid photography. It feels really personalized, but still not landing, then that's normally a messaging issue. So that's either, there's something deeper here sitting behind the product or behind the thing that they're talking about. Is there an audience for this? Do they need to change the way that they are presenting this idea? , I'm looking across three strands really. I did power hour with this amazing business recently, one of your, clients that came to me for a one-to-one, their content was [00:31:00] brilliant. As in so useful, so valuable to so many people, so much gold in there, but it was hidden, a little bit, behind, headlines that felt like they were teaching, hooks that felt like they were teaching, and that just creates resistance for people. they think, thank you," or they think, "God, I haven't got time to think about that right now.
That feels like a lot. I need to go away and digest that. Maybe I'll look at this later when I'm in the bath," or
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And they've, , had really fantastic results following the power hour, where they are now using I, this is what I learned on my relationship, or this is what happened to me when I did X, Y, Z, it just changes the game
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I'm sure that the cycle will change, and that Instagram will change, and maybe we'll go back to that education era that we really felt was successful when everyone was in that kind of COVID learning bubble. But right now, it has to be lived experiences that offer people shortcuts and that are like, I hate the word authentic, but you can smell when they're not as well.
Sophie: You [00:32:00] really can. And I think it was interesting when those clients worked with you. , They had been told, and I think we'd all learnt, marketing, , we talk aboutyou. , They're the person with the problem. , Don't talk about yourself. And also, I mean, yeah, okay, it's a marketing thing, but I also think it's potentially maybe also just a female millennial, thing, where it's like, " "Don't talk about yourself. Don't boast. , , Don't make it all about you." "Think of others first. Be likable. Be kind." It's sort of all wrapped up in that, isn't it? Of like, "Don't toomuch." And someone that's talking about themselves in every single post, like it feels a bit much to just be talking about me and I and my experience.
But I actually was talking to these clients yesterday, and what I was saying to them was, "It's actually not about you at all. It's about them seeing themselves in you and being,
Oh my
God, I feel like that too. Oh
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: there as well.' , She knows me. She understands me." Rather than, ", oh, she's trying to teach me something."
Lovely.
Ruthie: And think about what [00:33:00] that does from a buy and signal point of view, right? If the person that is selling to you is making you feel like, "Oh my God, me too. Shit, yes, I feel seen. I do not feel attacked. I feel seen. I feel like you are gonna get me," the position that puts them in to feel like they can buy or take the next step is so different. One of the examples I like to use is, , I long to live in, like, aminimalist home that has, , not too much stuff and like, zen. oh my would be amazing. I do not. And actually, one of the things that happens to me when I'm frayed, like at the minute, I've been busy the last couple of weeks, is- I'm the mess creator.
I like to pretend it's the boys. It's not. It's me. I'm leaving a chaos wherever I go. I see a post that said something like, "You're sick of your house being a mess, you need to do these 10 things to turn it around," I'm like, "Sod off.
Sophie: Yeah. Uh, Yeah.
Ruthie: Don't talk to me. I'm already annoyed about it." see someone that's like, chaos used to follow me around my house. I used to live in a mess when I was [00:34:00] stressed, and I knew that it was making things worse, and these are the five things I did that completely changed that for me," I'm like, "Let me swipe through. Let me save. Have you got a PDF I can
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: Thank you for helping me." One feels like a friend over a table saying, "I've got you. I tell you what you want to do with that, babe. You want to use this product. You want to use that cream. You're
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: Not,, someone on a sort ofstand on high with a microphone saying, "No to you. You're not doing it right. Let me tell you how you should do it instead." So I just think the vibe is so different and how you create safety for people by , I.
It can feel selfish and, , indulgent,but it's not. It's just offering people the same way we do with our friends when we're out for dinner. "Oh, no, babe, I tell you what, if you go to B&M, you can get that for Y, Z." Or, "I had a sleepover for my kids, and I used this company, and they were brilliant." Just feels so great to get that type of recommendation versus, you know, [00:35:00] and we've all got them, people in our lives who are, like, a little bit more instructional with how they share things. It can, can, get you
Sophie: Yeah. Itotally, agree. I actually was on the house one, 'cause I obviously am attracted to stuff like that as well. And I always remember I saw one, and it was, like, this one rule , obviously it was about ADHD, 'cause most of my content is. But it was like, this one rule stopped me living in ADHD clutter.
, And it was basically, , the one touchrule. So you touch something, you either put it away or, you know, put it away straight away, whatever. I mean, I don't do it. But I remember it,, , that's the kind of thing I'm gonna remember rather than someone telling me, , "Oh, you have to do this," ,
I just think it's so important. I'll tell you one thing, actually. I was thinking while you were talking. I saw this week, oh, and I'm gonna get this wrong. I will try and remember the right thing. M&S, Food,
their, I want to say head of food development. Something like that. I will have to check her title.
I'll put her account in the show notes. , Basically, they've given her herown,Instagram account, and she goes round and tells you why they made decisions, what they're thinking of [00:36:00] next. , What's behind this product idea. , I mean, it's really addictive, and it's unbelievable marketing for them.
But you never
once feel sold to. She's like a friend telling you, , "Oh, so we were really wanted to, , make surethat, , this wasbecause we just got so many people wanting gluten-free. It's actually quite tricky, because you've gotta do X, Y, Z. So what we've done is this, and we think it's really great, , and actually customers love it," whatever.
But you're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, and that's really helpful. Oh, actually, I do really enjoy that kind of food. Maybe I'll eat that at the weekend." It's so much better than them having, , an account that's like, "We've got a new gluten-free cake. , , this is how much it is, and, , this is what the ingredients are."
Like, it's just a totally different vibe. I think, , it's a really, really, clever marketing move
Ruthie: It is, and if you think about it, if companies like M&S are taking the time to have a first-person experience of
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: there's a reason for
[00:37:00] Okay? And I almost think we're like, the smaller businesses are trying to behave like big businesses.
I think we do this a lot. I need to seem professional. I need to seem authoritative. I need to seem like I know what I'm doing, and that I'm educated and well-versed in this topic. That's more about us and our egos. People don't care. They're gonna find out about your credentials and make a decision themselves, regardless of what we're saying on our latest Instagram post. We can show our knowledge and experience and expertise, and still deliver it via the vehicle of something that's deeply
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: What some people struggle with is putting themselves into the spot of that sometimes first-person storytelling requires. And also, say, the effortthat is required to do that. are living in a world of being desperate for shortcuts, and sometimes, and I know you and I spoke about this earlier, sometimeswhen I look at people's accounts, maybe I'm doing an audit for them. They want me to look at their account and tell them what I see. Sometimes I can see a lack of effort. I think [00:38:00] sometimes I can see, this is an automated process. And I love repurposing, so don't get me wrong on this. I am the biggest fan of repurposing content and using existing content as part of your content ecosystem. Yes, please, sign me up. sometimes you can just tell that it's low low ask, content to get churned out, maybe by somebody else, maybe it's not by you. and I'm a social media manager as one of the strings to my bow. I like making content for the people. It's not that. But sometimes you can just see there's just a lack of commitment to creating good content.
Sophie: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think as part of the super fan system, the premise is that you have your offer that you really wanna sell, then you create a lead magnet and ads. And so the ads bring in people, and they join your email list, and then ultimately we have, , email sequencesthat, , lead them towards your offer.
And I think that's the, headline premise that everybody comes to me wanting, okay? They want ads that's gonna grow their email list and get in the right people. And what most people [00:39:00] miss is that the success of your ads, and as part of the system I have this thing that sits under it called the messaging bridge.
The reality is, people are not gonna see an ad anymore and,, get your lead magnet and then suddenly join your program. They might. Like, it's definitelyhappened, and it happens. But the reality is, is thatpeople need a bit more than that. They need to build trust. They need to build connection.
They've got a lot of choice now for online programs. . There's so many more masterminds and group programs, and there's so much more out there now. They need to make decisions, like careful decisions. And the reality is, getting someone on your email list isn't enough anymore.
, You have to have somewhere for those people to then go to be nurtured. And for a lot of my clients, that is Instagram. , Some of them also have, , podcasts and YouTube channels and, , other spaces as well. But I would say, I mean, it could be Facebook,again, it could be LinkedIn, but social media, if you want to build a community, if you wanna build trust, if you wanna build connection, that is where I see the - biggest success, is the [00:40:00] people that understand that putting effort and time into your content alongside having ads, they work together.
They're not an either/or. But ads amplifies whatever you're doing on content. I mean, I have talked about the fact that I only did five posts in May or whatever. Those are what I advocate for my clients. that is an incredible result after essentially being consistent on social media for, , nearly nine years now.
, There is enough momentum,there's enough content there, there's enough people following me that I could carry that for a couple of months. I can't carry on just doing five posts a month and expect to still get- the same results. , Thatisn'tat all what I think
Ruthie: No. And what I would say as well about those
Sophie: 嗯
Ruthie: no, I wouldn't suggest people just do five posts a month, but they were bloody
Sophie: I know. They really were
Ruthie: They were great. They were authentic. They were storytelling. They were not you trying to actively sell. And so I would always rather people do fewer really good posts that really stay with people or feel like, "Oh my God, connection.
Love it," [00:41:00] than seven posts a week going out every day, scheduled to perfection, Canva , you know, ChatGPT, or formula. Yes, get it done. Social media, I think I've used this line in a previous episode and it came from the Two Lauras, which is a, club that I'm in. it's that social media is not an admin task. It is not a tick it off your list, you have done it. That is not what it is. It is not that. It is not the same as, payinginvoices and, you know, transactional little jobs that we all have to do in our business. It is a way for you to build a connection. It is a way for you to nurture somebody. It is way for you to try and bring them closer.
Can I get them to walk closer to me at the same time as I walk closer to them so that purchasing doesn't feel like, a massive, jump? And I do sometimes, not , all the time, but sometimes I do just think, "Well, actually what you need to do is,put a bit more effort in," because, we see these massive pieces of viral content where people have got, amazing likes, comments, everything, and .
You can look at them and be intimidated, but I look at them and think, "God, [00:42:00] it's very rare that I see one that I don't think, 'That's bloody good.' that is a really great piece of
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And so we can tell ourselves these stories about the algorithm, and don't get me wrong, the algorithm can really be a pain.
With my own content, I always see that the best content does best
Sophie: ,and, it's annoying because sometimes, I really struggle to post when I don't feel , the energy of a post. And I know that seems ridiculous and it's, but it's very much like I can do a whole post and just be like, "I don't wanna post that."
I know it's not gonna do very well. I don't feel the energy in it. And that can feel quite hard 'cause I'm like, "Well, should Iput it outthere?" Because ultimately every post is , moving, forward, it's another potential connection point. Or actually, should I just wait and only do posts that I'm really behind?
And it's hard because sometimes I do also think I need to get a grip. Because sometimes I'll put posts out that I'm not really behind and they do really well. It doesn't happen very often, but sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I didn't think people would like that one. Oh, that's nice.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: I do [00:43:00] think it's hard.
I mean, what do you think about summer? Because I know
Ruthie: Ooh
Sophie: lot, I know there's gonna start being messaging around ,, , I'm starting to see , oh, slow down over summer, and we sort of have that collectivebelief of , oh, we can't launch over summer and we can't do things over summer.
And I know we're gonna get that summer, engagement's gonna drop, summer will feel slow. , , what do you, do? Do you carry on posting and just like knowing you're moving, potentially reaching people? Or do you give yourself a break?
Ruthie: Yeah. I do both, if I'm completely honest. I don't buy into this whole summer thing. I think it's like this self-perpetuating story that people say there's less engagement, so people are posting less good stuff, and so there is less engagement 'cause there's less good stuff to like. , I was lucky enough through one of my clients to have a session with somebody who was, , still working at Instagram, she was like, the thing that people love unanimously on Instagram is the seasons." they wanna see things that look Christmassy around Christmas. They wanna see things that look summery when it's summery. And [00:44:00] so that's how I see it instead, is that, there is gonna be a shift in what people want to
and so can I answer to that? I always post some holiday photos, right? And it would be very easy for me to say, "What the hell has that got to do with my business? What the hell has me posting a little roundup of what I've been doing on holiday got to do with me inviting people into the Bloody Good Story Club or helping them with their content strategy?" What I think it's got to do with it is of where they come into my, products, it's me. I haven't got a team. It's me. So if they can feel more like I'm their mate, if they can feel more like someone that they've got an existing relationship with, then that's gonna bring them closer to me. And when they come closer to me, they'll come closer to my offers. So I lead with myself as the anchor, and once they come closer to me, they can explore the offers and the different ways to work with me. They're gonna listen more to what I've got to say if they feel closer to me. And so if me showing a little photo dump of things that I got up to over the summer is gonna help them do [00:45:00] that, I also know it's always gonna get
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I know, it's an easy like for people. So I think my attitude more in the summer is like, how can I make this easy for people? They're probably not going to want to read the in-depth analysis of my Bloody Good Story Club right now. But can I make them feel like, for me, content is easy; for me, content flows? Yeah, I can, because it's the truth, and I can do it in a way that feels like, oh shit, I could do that too. So my advice for summer is always like, if you've still got the appetite to be posting, if you still feel like you can share some bits and bobs as what, to what's going on in a way that feels easy, photo dumps from your phone,little stories that have happened, little learnings that you've had, fantastic. You can also take a break if you want to. I won't post when I'm on, we go away and we're going away for 12 days. Unless I feel inspired, sometimes happens when you've got a minute to,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: won't post probably, and I won't apologize for it, and I'll just come back and act as if it didn't happen andthat doesn't do me any damage and [00:46:00] is
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: think- I would just advise against for a whole six weeks. I don't know about you, but I feel like that's a recipe for disaster
Sophie: just, I mean, as said, I mean, I an absolute nightmare because, like, I can plan outcontent for tomorrow and then not really feel the vibe of it by then and really not want to post it. So the idea of scheduling six weeks worth of content is absolutely abhorrent to me. I mean, I just couldn't. In terms of, like, wider strategy and not just about me, myself, and I, I, generally, like you say, I think often you can sort of tell when a post misses the mark slightly, and it's often because it's been batched quite far in advance. You - you're guessing what the weather's gonna be like, you're guessing what the mood's gonna be like, and often there will be some just, small things. things.
Things change in six weeks. What we're talking about, how we're talking. I mean,I can't quite work out the timeframes, but six weeks ago, was anybody talking about yapping? Maybe on the cusp of it, but, imagine the start of the summer holidays was, like, pre-Jessie, and her mega launch.
, You'd be scheduling content and you might be talking about talk to camera [00:47:00] reels or something like that, and everyone would be like, "Oh, we call it yapping now, by the way. Little bit off, wouldn't it?
Ruthie: Totally. There are certain accounts where that could work. if your content is always evergreen, it never has anything that's taking inspiration from the world around you, , it is what it is, you know One of my clients is, a quote account,for example.
So those quotes are just the quotes. They look the same. They're always the same. Great. that's fine. But I just think if you are the person in your
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I think it, it's a bit of a dangerous space. I never liketo schedule for my clients more than two weeks, and I think that even that I can sometimes feel like, ooh, okay, I'm gonna move that post, actually, '
I'm gonna pull that out the schedule. I'll use it again in the future. Always having to keep abreast of it. So I think for the summer, I not to buy into the idea that engagement is less. I just think the appetite is different, so I try to reflect that in the content I will put out there. will go with interest-first content. what I'm doing, what I'm up to, how I'm balancing things. I will be creating content that allows people to give me an easy bit of [00:48:00] engagement, high interest or high entertainment, and I will save some of my deeper stories, some of my more informational posts, I'll save them for September when everyone's normally got a new notebook, fresh energy, that back-to-school vibe.
I'll save that for then. So yeah, my advice with the summer is, if you can, keep posting, loosen the strings a little bit. We're all busy in the summer, and so are the people looking at your account. So, one great post a week can just be enough to, keep it ticking over and, you can even introduce it as a series and say, ", you're gonna see less from me in the summer, less about the business in the summer, but I'm bringing you a six-week series called Summer Holidays And Me," and each week you do a photo dump of how you balanced work and business. I mean,
Sophie: I think I was gonna say, right, let's do that, Dorothy. All right, put that down.
I
Ruthie: it. Come join her.
Sophie: Wanna do that. We'll all do it. I, yeah Ivery much agree. I guess what I would add there as well is that in periods when I'm not able to post as much, , I definitely lean on my ads more. And that's what a lot of my clients do as well.
So I [00:49:00] think it's about intentionality, of being like, "I don't wanna post as much. I wanna have a little bit less, , pressure on myself. So over this period, I'm gonna, , increasemy ad spend slightly. I'm gonna use Instagram growth ads so that I still get people seeing my content. I'm gonna grow my email list knowing I've got an automated sequence in the background.
, I'm gonna lean on that a little bit more." And then other periods, I might lean more on organic. I might be like, "Actually, I don't wanna spend that much money on ads at the moment, so I'm gonna lean a bit more on organic." , The two work together really nicely. It doesn't have to be about, "Oh, I can only use organic, and therefore if I'm posting less over the summer, I'll just have to accept I'm gonna get less people into my world."
Like, when you've got the ads running, you can kind of, you use both
Ruthie: Yeah. And I just think, actually we've got a shared client, Michelle. know that Michelle likes to listen to this podcast
Sophie: Oh,
Oh, I think so
Ruthie: me this week. So, hi Michelle.and actually Michelle's in my Bloody Good Story Club, and I was checking in with my members to say "How's everyone doing?
Like, how's it feeling? What are you up to? How's content feeling for you?" she came back and made me really think about myself in that she was like, "Yeah, I've got [00:50:00] a busy window coming up. We're going away. So I'm feeling okay about that. I'm gonna post a little less organically because I've got my ads up and running.
They're performing well, so I know that they can keep me ticking over until I'm back into the position to be posting more consistently." So she was still planning, I think, on posting, one or two times a week, but because she'd got that knowledge that she'd got some ads running that were, you know, , you, probably would know better, Sophie, 'cause I'm pretty sure she did them through you.
But some ads that are growing her following or her ads that are signing up for the lead magnet, it just released some of the pressure. And I think one of the things that, that happens with organic social media is sometimes our expectations of what it can do for us are a little bit unrealistic
Sophie: absolutely. And like you said earlier, ,Instagram isn't there to sell necessarily. It's there to build community. And ultimately, you can have automations, and you can batch, and you can have all these processes, and you can get Claude doing it for you. , There is loads of ways you can do that.
But generally, I would say if you want content that works really well for you, there is going to be an element of you being part of it, and therefore it [00:51:00] takes your actual live time and energy. And so if you don't want to be doing that, I would say a better way, for me personally, a better way than using AI to create your content would be to use ads to amplify the impact of the content that you are creating.
And it's just another way, I guess, to be a little bit more, a little bit hands-off when you need to be, especially over the summer
Ruthie: Yeah, I think that's such good advice. It's definitely one that I need to take myself. I really do wanna get that set up in my business. And I know that ads can be such an intimidating thing for people, and that's often like, "Oh, well, I can't to pay to have someone to run them for me," and I also feel very nervous about running them myself, , so I do get that and share that. , And, you know, have bought your course accordingly, Sophie, not to,plug your, deliverables there. But I think when it comes to that big overarching question that we asked at the beginning of like, "Should I careabout my poor engagement?" I suppose , my thoughts would be that you really need to, takestock of what's happening with your content.
Remove the likes and stuff like that. Stop thinking about your engagement, and think about the bigger picture of your business, and, [00:52:00] is it doing what you want it to
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I know that my posts in comparison aren't getting high engagement. I'll probably get between 30 and 70 likes on a post.
I've got under 2,000 followers. I might get 10 to 15 comments. But really the past 12 to 18 months, I know wholeheartedly from the other signals in my business that my content is working really, really hard for me. The quality of the comments that I get, the DMs that I get, the emails that I get, the people that then join. Like I've said to you before, I can start to see signals of who I know is next gonna join my Bloody Good Story Club by how they're engaging with my content. I can see that relationship building, and I can see how it's working. the type of thing I think people should be reflecting on, not, "That post got five likes." "Is this content really doing what I need it to do?"
Sophie: Yeah. And I totally agree. I think it's like taking it out of that real, , basic, "Oh, I didn't get as many comments. ... That makes me feel a bit shit," to, , is ... The time and energy that I am inevitably putting into it, is it delivering what I want? And [00:53:00] if it's not, then, , do something about it
Ruthie: Yeah. Try something different. get into crazy scientist mode of being like, "Right, what threads can I see that have worked? Let me create a theory, and let me test that theory. And let me see." sometimes, like with the power hour that I mentioned, we were really quite quickly in the nuance of, well, okay,let's always use this phrase. Let's always name these things. Let's always mention this person, and let's test that. And then if you start to get proof that's outperformed,then that becomes part of, rather than content pillars, or content strategies that can become, really something to trip over and become something to punish yourself against.
Instead, let's just have sort of ecosystem of words, phrases, hooks, ideas, concepts that you know work consistently, and then just pull them down. Pick one, do what you're in the mood for. It can feel loads better than thinking, "Oh, shit, it's Wednesday. On Wednesdays, I do reels. I need to post about my offer." That can feel like really hard work. Whereas if instead it's like, "Oh, on [00:54:00] Wednesday I do a carousel of photos that are from my phone, and I team it with a story about my relationship with my husband, because that links to
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. , I feel like I've said, "I'll put that in the show notes," like maybe at least 20 times. So I feel sorry for my podcast, , manager, Nicola, who is going to have to... Yeah, sorry Nicola, like, you're gonna have to give us a list of what we need to put in. But we will make sure it's all there.
So, I hope you've enjoyed this episode. We will be back next Tuesday.
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