Ep 10: Should I Care About... AI Stealing My Clients, Sounding Like Everyone Else & Agents That Waste My Time?
What this episode is about
This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into AI, & whether it's coming for our jobs. It kicked off with Ruthie: a client sent her copy back saying it sounded too much like AI, & it wasn't AI, she'd written every word herself.
But the more we talked, the more it turned into something every coach & service provider is living right now.
Because your clients are using it too…they're having a chat with Claude at midnight & turning up with a seven-page strategy, submitting work that's clearly landed straight out of AI with nothing of them left in it, & half-wondering if they still need you at all. We get into what's actually being devalued here & what genuinely isn't, & the odd new pressure to prove the human bit is still worth paying for.
Plus the AI agents we've both built to buy back a few hours, & the ones that ate the whole evening instead.
Key topics covered in this episode
In this episode:
The client who turned up with a 7-page strategy from Claude, & why the honest fix was simpler than everything the AI suggested
Getting sent work that's clearly straight out of AI with no checks on it, & what it quietly does to the person having to review it
The accountability coach Sophie built in Claude that got shirty with her for disappearing, & the one thing it could never get its head round
An entire evening lost to sorting 150 client screenshots with AI, & what she had to admit by the end of it
The discovery-call question Sophie asks out loud now that she'd have been mortified to ask 18 months ago
meet your hosts
Sophie Griffiths
Sophie is obsessed with working with impatiently ambitious women who want to build a business based on connection and depth and refuse to accept they can’t work less and still earn big money.
A fast talking scaling strategist who teaches women to grow their businesses with ads, offer they are obsessed with and marketing that actually feels fun.
Over the last 9 years she’s grown the business alongside 2 high energy girls, a cavapoo dog who doesn’t understand personal space, an ADHD diagnosis & strong (positive) feelings about trashy TV (yes Off Campus..) & salted butter.
ruthie walmsley
Ruthie is a storytelling strategist and recovering English teacher ( and deputy headteacher) who helps women turn what they actually think into content people can’t stop reading.
One husband, one son, one ridiculous puppy called Bernie, an obsession with storytelling and a CV that includes some of the biggest names in the online business space.
Read the Podcast episode transcript
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Ep 10 - AI, Identity, and The Writing Voice Dialogues
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care? with me, Sophie Griffiths.
Ruthie: Me, Ruthie Walmsley
Sophie: hey, how are you doing?
Ruthie: I'm doing really well, thank you. I'm gonna jump right in with something actually,
Sophie: go on
Ruthie: really on my mind. 'cause I've actually just this morning been doing something called the morning pages.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: So there's like this secret world of people talking about this book called The Artist's Way, I'm sure some
our listeners have heard of it. I hadn't heard of it. but a part of it is doing these morning pages where you do three pages of writing. And the reason I started doing this is because I feel like I've been having a full-blown identity crisis,
about my work as a writer.
Sophie: Okay.
Ruthie: to tell you about it. essentially, what I've come to the conclusion is that it's, AI's fault. I'm having an identity
Sophie: Sure. Yeah.
Ruthie: So obviously, a massive part of what I do for a living is writing. I'm writing people's content for them, I'm writing people's copy for their, stuff.
I'm writing copy for my own business.
, So yeah, , my [00:01:00] identity crisis is quite specifically to do with, being a writer. obviously at the moment, I'm using AI to up the efficiency. Sometimes at, at my client's request. Sometimes they wanna get maximum output from me, and obviously there is a benefit to having someone who is a good writer prompting AI, because the quality of the output when you understand writing is better. So on the one hand, I am using AI, sometimes at my client's request, in my writing. But recently I had this situation, and a fellow copywriter of mine had a similar one, where I had just written something. So I had written it as me, and I'd written it for my client. she came back to me, she's so gorgeous, and was just like, "Ooh, this just feels, a little bit too AI for me. I just think it's quite obviously AI." And it wasn't AI. It was me. I was like, "Oh, okay. Could you just, point out what it is that you're seeing that, that feels AI?" One of them, for example, is that [00:02:00] I'd used honestly a lot at the start of a sentence. Not a lot, but a few times. Honestly, if you go back into my content, you will see that is part of the way that I write.
It's also a really nice way to draw attention to a sentence.
Sophie: Yeah start the sentence with honestly, you are articulating your audience that this is a moment of truthfulness. This is a moment of clarity. So I'd used that. I'd used, "Here's the thing," which,
Yeah.
Ruthie: I love to use
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: transition and, again, it creates a focal point.
It's saying, "This is the moment. This is the transition moment. This is the bit you need to pay attention to." And there was one other, I can't remember. Oh, short sentences. And
Sophie: short sentences are, yeah, are my current,
'cause I feel this a little bit with my own stuff. They are my current bugbear, short sentences, because I used to use them quite a lot. I like a short, punchy sentence. But now I feel like if it's not, like, long-form prose, then it just looks like AI's written it
Ruthie: Yes. So then we're in this situation, where [00:03:00] I'm editing my own writing that has come out of me freely
to make sure that it doesn't sound like AI, and sometimes then taking out something that's really good and is, a tried and tested writing technique. So short sentences, for example, every incredible persuasive speech you will read will have a series of short sentences in it. there's a list of persuasive devices, and one of them is short sentences because what they do is create a punchy moment of clarity. I'm not saying we should be using them all the time, but especially on social media where attention's short and people are scrolling on their phones, big, long, meandering sentences one after another creates repetition and a feeling of it being a methodical piece of reading and it's hard to create light and shade.
When we vary our sentence lengths, we create light and shade. We create moments of intensity. And so I was like, from this back of this, my client would be mortified 'cause she's such a babe, I was just like, "Oh my God, what is this life?" Either I'm using AI to [00:04:00] write, or when I'm not using AI to write, I'm editing out some of the things I know to be good because I'd hate for somebody to think I'd written it with AI. So I've started doing these morning pages
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: to just write freely to just try and get like, it sounds really wanky, but like just to try and reconnect to myself as how I write and what my voice is and what I believe to be good writing. Now, I will say, audience at home, the writing that's happened in my morning pages so far is utter shite.
Sophie: It's not the elite writing you were hoping was gonna pour out of you when you could just be your true self
Ruthie: yeah, , in like the preface of the book it was like, I had one person who was like, "I started doing the morning pages and a novel just started flowing out of me. and before I knew it, I'd written a book." And mine's like, "Oh my God, I'm so tired. Life feels really stressful right now." And I'm like, yeah, no one's buying that. , That
Sophie: Ja, das...
Ruthie: But
Sophie: nein
Ruthie: all this to say is that like it got me thinking about AI and If it's doing that in my [00:05:00] business, what effect is it having in other businesses? how are people feeling about it? Is it changing the face of the business world, the online business world especially?
Sophie: Yeah. , I just think it's such an interesting topic, and I think there's definitely a conversation around, AI and copy because I feel like it's just a really hot thing that people are really aware of at the moment, aren't they? the use, like you say, honestly, and here's the thing, and quietly, and short sentences, and em dashes.
There's all these, tells,
is really tough because, essentially AI is built on large language models, right? So what AI is doing is reflecting back to you the common ways of, getting attention and being persuasive and doing what you're asking AI to do. So it's not like it's coming up with this, AI language that we don't all recognize.
I guess what it's doing is it's over-relying on a few, things which make them, for us, I think as business owners, really obvious. And we talked a little bit, about this last week actually, about how you can really [00:06:00] be in your own echo chamber as well. Because I would say my husband doesn't pick out AI copy nearly as much as I do.
So I can read something and be like, that's definitely AI." He's like, "Really? Why do you think that? it's really good." And it's interesting 'cause he uses AI hugely in his work, but he uses it, he's like a real, spreadsheet geek. So he will use AI to, like, AI does incredible support for, insane formulas and, w- working with coding and stuff like that.
So he uses it like that, but he would , very rarely use AI to write anything. And so when he reads stuff, yeah, he has an absolutely no idea it's AI because to him, like you say, using the word quietly and, honestly, and here's the thing, is just normal language.
Ruthie: Yeah. And,
Sophie: I think that's where it's really tricky, isn't it?
Because actually, again, we're in this sort of echo chamber where we're trying to move away from AI, but that means we're moving away from the language that we normally use.
Ruthie: This is... Oh, and here's the thing
Sophie: Yeah, [00:07:00] and he's the... Honestly though, Ruthie
Ruthie: , So we all have idiolects, right? So an idiolect is an individual way of speaking, and when we write, I always encourage people to try and get as close as they can to their idiolect. Because when you do that, you're emulating a real conversation. It feels natural. So when we say things like, write how you would talk to a friend, what we're, in a technical way, saying is, make sure your written idiolect is as close to your verbal idiolect as possible because it helps to build relationships in the same way natural conversation does. And so, think it is really challenging to be like, this me? Am I writing as me? When I strip out some of the AI tells, am I stripping out some of the ways that I would talk?" And so it's just - brought about this super self-conscious way of writing that removes some of the freedom of expression that I think makes incredible content.
Sophie: I challenged myself last week actually to just write a post.
Ruthie: I was talking to, the ladies in my write club about it, which is like a weekly call where we all just write and they were like, "Just write [00:08:00] it." And I was like, so I wrote it. I didn't proofread it But I tell you what was so strange is the pull that I felt to get AI to just check it for me,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: run it through, does this make sense?
Sophie: Have I rambled too much? Can you just... So not to write it, but to help me make sure I'm being clear, to make sure that, I'm being accurate. Some of those shortcuts that we often take. And the pull that I was feeling was a bit like, Yeah, it's a bit uncomfortable, isn't it?
Ruthie: I was like,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that doesn't feel great. so it's a really complex relationship that's emerging for people with copy and content and the use of AI and, like we talked about in last week's episode, some of that judgment, of thinking like, oh, I think it's less about people not wanting to use AI and more about people not wanting to be seen to be
Sophie: Yes. Yeah
Ruthie: I had, my post, I posted online about it, that post I just mentioned. Someone messaged me. it out as an email to my list as well, and a woman emailed me and was like, "I hope you don't mind me messaging," but I found this [00:09:00] really interesting because I've got dyslexia, and for me, the ability to suddenly be able to communicate clearly without , that being stretchy for me,
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: changing.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: changing to be able to dump my thoughts into something and it help me make sure it's clear and that I haven't made mistakes, has been life changing. So whilst I hear you on some of the complexities of using AI, I think there is a group of us out there where this has been incredibly positive
Sophie: Yeah. And I think I feel the same, with my ADHD as well. I find it incredibly hard to get what I'm thinking in my head into written form. You know 'cause you've helped me with my social media. I find it, a almost painful process to be able to articulate it in a way that is clear and concise.
I've probably mentioned this before because it's such a trauma for me, but , one of my old bosses when I was in corporate said in , one of my, year-end feedbacks was that I'm clear but not concise. And to be fair, I carry it because I think it's true. And I've learnt to be really okay with that.
But I do think in the world of, we talk about with social media [00:10:00] and with sales pages and with being able to get your point across really clearly and articulately, it is something that I do find incredibly hard. However, what I will say is, I have noticed recently there's just so much bloat in AI.
When I talk about, I'm not very concise. AI can make it much better." Then I was writing a sales page the other day, and I put through what I'd written and it, tripled the length. And I was like, "No, that's not a section of a sales page. "No, cut that down back into a third."
and I think sometimes I definitely use AI as a crutch. I think it's gonna be faster. I think I can't do this on my own. I'll put my thoughts in. I'll get it to organize it, and then I'll get it to, write it, and then I'll edit it. And actually, I spend so much time going through draft after draft.
No, that's not what I wanted. No, you're missing the point. No, go back to this. but actually, it's not as efficient. And I think over time, that's what people are starting to learn. what is it that we really do want to be using AI for? Because I have a slightly different challenge
It's not so much my clients, but [00:11:00] I have read a few, online posts about this as well, especially if you're doing, copy feedback where someone has not taken the time to be the editor, to have the critical thinking, , to work with AI on something. But they have literally just dumped a prompt into AI and then whatever it spits out, they give to, , the coach or whatever to review.
And I think there was, like, quite a big coach who was, like, going through clients' work. And she was like, nine out of 10 is just literally just been dumped in from AI." And I think she ended up, putting a ban on AI or something . I don't know how you can put a ban on AI because, to be honest, it's quite, that's quite challenging.
But I do think there is something about, like- It was taking so much more of her time to edit these things because it had been written by AI. And because it didn't sound like that person, she was almost having to inject their personality in it for them,
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: is obviously not their personality. And I think for me, I find it more with, often clients...
not often, but sometimes clients will come to me and be like, "I was up all night, [00:12:00] strategizing with Claude," and "This is what Claude thinks I can do, and here's, a seven-page plan that Claude has done for me." And it's quite hard when you've been working with a client for quite a while, and you're like, no, we've got a strategy.
We actually don't need a seven-page strategy that I am now gonna have to go through, and I'm gonna have to try and understand what you've put into this, how , what it's basing its information on, and unpick it essentially and be like, 'Well, look, you're in this program because I have...'" You know, not that I have to lock people in with a certain way of doing things, but, essentially, , the trajectory that we're going roughly is this.
This is taking you off in a different direction. Like, why are we unpicking all the work you've done? And actually, often my solution is way simpler than AI's. way simpler
Ruthie: do you remember, I probably said this on the podcast, I built myself what I thought was like a
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: fantastic accountability coach on Claude. Oh my God, it's so shit. I tried to check in with it the other day
Sophie: it was like, "Where have you been? You were meant to check in."
Ruthie: And I was like, "I thought, you know, it's because you're shit." [00:13:00] It completely is rubbish. And part of that, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's people running incredible ones, but it just can't grasp outside the boundaries of which I had set. Now, I had set them, so I get that, and I tried to tweak it so that it had more flexibility and stuff.
But if I'm being coached by you or by anyone, you get that there is ebb and flow. That yeah, we were talking about that, but I understand that there's a need right now for you to be focusing on this, or that actually things have changed, and actually when we were in that conversation... So you're constantly as the coach readjusting "Okay, what's the line we're on now? What's most important? What's the priority?" Whereas the Claude coach I'd built, all it could do was think about the original I told it. And I was like,
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: moved on.
Sophie: Yeah,
Ruthie: Keep
Sophie: catch up
Ruthie: So I do think , the whole problem with it, is that , it's only as good as the input, I'm not a coach.
I'm not a strategy coach when it comes to the wider business. And so me building it, I've got an idea, but [00:14:00] I haven't probably built it in the right way. but I saw actually just what you were saying about , the editing process. I'm gonna get all the details wrong here, but I saw this post a university lecturer at quite a highbrow university set a question.
The question was sent via email or on a portal or something. And in white text, hidden, put a command in for AI say randomly, I would like you to mention... And it was something like, it wasn't this, but it was something like the word hippo or
Sophie: Okay. So like really out of context.
Ruthie: out of context.
I think it was
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And, something like 30 out of the 32 students in the class, he could then see in their answer the word panda.
Sophie: But isn't that ridiculous that those students have not even, what, read it? what? there's one thing catching them out, but another thing, if you're gonna use AI, guys, use it properly. And I think that's really what it comes back to. And I have spent a lot of time, not a lot of time, but I've [00:15:00] spent some time looking at things like agents and like you said, the accountability thing, and I set up, a weekly, scheduled task that it, come- or daily, sorry, to come into my inbox and tell me, like, what's going on today?
What's my calendar? What's my inbox? What's going on? And,it just reminds me, in all honesty, of ... And it's probably 'cause I'm not doing it right, and I'm sure if I persevere, there'll be some elements I think will be really useful. I'm not against AI at all. But what it does remind me of is, , when I was revising for my GCSEs, and I made the most incredible revision planners.
They were color-coded. I made these, mind maps. They was like ... It was incredible. But the amount of time I did doing that, if I'd have just got on with the work.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: don't get me wrong, I obviously did really well in my GCSEs. But, the reality is, I just sometimes think, I could just check my calendar.
My calendar is not that mental that I need an AI telling me what's on my calendar today. I actually just open the calendar app. I sometimes think we're just finding solutions for the sake of it, and I do think it's making me ... [00:16:00] It's not making me less clever, but it's making me doubt myself more.
And actually, I was with a group the other day, a few weeks ago, and someone was talking about going on a podcast, and she hadn't been on one before, and she was a bit nervous. And, we were like, "Oh, you'll be fine. You're a great chatter," blah, blah. She's like, "Oh, I know, but, I never answer anything now without, checking it through AI.
what if I get asked a question and I don't know , the best way to answer it?"
Ruthie: And I think that is the insidious thing about AI, is that it, like you were saying, the pull to check it. That's why it impacts our brains. It's not because we're getting thicker. It's because we don't trust ourselves anymore
Yeah, I
Sophie: that we could actually just do it
Ruthie: Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think some of the online narrative about it of breeds that fear into us as well. have you seen, I can't remember the account. It's a great account. , The knowledge and the content in there is really useful, but it always starts with the hook of, "Claude just killed bookkeeping."
"ChatGPT just killed photography." And you're like,
Sophie: there's been a professional murder." And so then one of the questions I've [00:17:00] been asking myself a lot
Yeah
Ruthie: is Claude gonna steal my clients? Is that happening? Is Claude gonna steal my job? Is it gonna steal my client?
Is it gonna steal my income because people start to think they can do it themselves? And I think there is that happening online where people are fearing, "Okay, do I need to pivot?" Because, , everyone's just gonna use AI to do, their writing or their social media creation. But I do think it's starting to move into other spaces as well, like people , as we said, people are going, trying to build, coaches are trying to build. is that something that you're seeing, with your clients? Do you think people are... I know people are worrying about it in the space I work in, but is it traveling further than that now?
Sophie: That's a really interesting one, isn't it? And I do think there is a difference between knowledge and results, I wouldn't say anyone has not worked with me because they've got a much better AI coach.
But I do think people need a lot more reassurance. So they'll They'll go to Claude at like midnight or 10:00 PM when they know I'm not around, and they want that immediate [00:18:00] feedback. And it almost makes them feel like they're doing something productive. And I think a lot of that plays on people, when they start working with me, they're feeling quite unsafe in their business.
They're feeling like they're just, so ambitious and they just want to do this incredible thing, but it just, it takes time. And I think in a world of things that, are immediate, it , can feel really uncomfortable sometimes to do something that takes quite a bit of time to get there.
so I'm not sure that I feel like AI's gonna take my clients, but I do think, the way that I work with clients
Ruthie: Hmm.
Sophie: evolving. And I think what they can get from AI is they can speed up the process, so often they will. And I generally I would encourage it, 'cause I do it as well.
they'll use AI to help them write, welcome sequences. Like, when you've got to write seven or eight emails in one go, that's a massive ask. And
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: I would much rather that they use AI, use my... I can put the structuring of the emails. I can tell them what needs to be in each email. They can upload stories for each email that they want to tell.
AI can then, [00:19:00] map it all out, and then they can then edit from there, which is what I'd obviously always encourage them to do, and then they pass it to me for feedback or you actually for feedback. I guess there is definitely a niggle in my head about making sure that when a client has had a conversation with, a coach, and they're all really open with me about it.
So it's, I don't think it's like they're secretly thinking of replacing me. But I think it's like I definitely feel slight pressure to prove my worth, prove my humanness, and that I can, see bigger picture
And often, and like I will absolutely say, there is a reasonable amount of times where Claude and I agree.
So sometimes a client will say, "Oh, I was thinking of doing this or this," and I'll say, "Oh, i'd do the second one." And they'll say, "Oh yeah, Claude said that too." so I know. And I think if I said, "Do the first one," and Claude had said the second one, I think they would do the first one. So I don't think it's that they're like, "Oh, okay, fine.
I'm just going with more Sophie because I think Claude knows best." I think it's what we were saying earlier. I think we're all feeling it, this feeling of not trusting ourselves
Ruthie: And I think the more that we can work with clients to help them trust [00:20:00] themselves and use AI in a way that doesn't undermine that trust,
Sophie: I think that's the difference. But where do you see it going with AI? Because I've seen quite a big backlash in terms of using AI for content creation
Ruthie: Yeah, I have and I haven't.
I can see people talking about it,
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: not wanting to use AI,
Sophie: liking AI content, and then I can see that AI's probably
Besser na, content.
And so that is, I think that's really tricky. And Yeah
Ruthie: I think probably what I feel is happening is two things really. On the one hand, I feel like it does, for certain spaces and roles, and professions, devalue the expertise a little bit,
Sophie: even if it only does it for a little while.
Yeah
Ruthie: I could just get AI to do that," makes it harder to charge certain prices, for example. So there was a period of time where me saying, "I can write your nurture sequence for you," was like the [00:21:00] relief that would offer someone.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: someone's gonna have a 30-day, 30-email welcome sequence because that works for their business, the enormity of that task
Sophie: Oh, huge
Ruthie: huge.
And they're like, "I'm never gonna do it. I'm never gonna have the time." Even if they're a great writer, just having the time to do that was impossible. It doesn't feel like that anymore. Even if they don't trust AI to write it, it does devalue the skillset to know that it's not such a big deal anymore, that they
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: get, even if it just got them 70% of the way there and then they had to spend the time editing it, even if
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: the planning and strategy.
So , in reality it does devalue certain things because the emotional weight of certain tasks doesn't exist in the same way that it used to.
I think in one way it can devalue knowledge. I also think,I've said to you before, I'm really tight when it comes to spending money on my business.
I don't like doing it. I know I need to. And I've articulated loads of times recently to loads of people, I know to move my business to [00:22:00] the next level I probably want to work with a coach.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: feel that I need that accountability. I can feel that I need that person. I'm a goody two shoes. If someone tells me to do something, I'll do
Sophie: , But what I did first is I've tried to build an AI coach to do that because financially I was like, it would make more sense if I could just do this myself. got bills to pay. I've got different pressures at the moment, I don't wanna work with a shit coach. I don't wanna work with a cheap one.
Ruthie: I wanna work with somebody where I see the value. so I'm delaying what I think is an inevitability. I think I
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: hire a coach, but I'm delaying it because of finances. And so I
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that plays a part as well. I think sometimes , people think, maybe I can just create something in AI 'cause I can't afford to pay a copywriter," or, "I can't quite afford a coach yet," or, "The coach I wanna work with is pretty and my Claude subscription is only X, Y, Z."
Yeah, so I think that's some of the relationship that's happening for people as well, rather than it just being like a simple choice of AI or the professional
Sophie: I agree. And I think as well, it was really interesting when you were talking there, what I was thinking is like, I d- I'm- [00:23:00] we're the opposite in this, which is we're gonna do a fun episode on this because we're really opposites. I love spending money. so I do invest. However, I would say now after many years of learning and evolving, I'm very intentional with what I'm spending.
I try not to do too many, investments at one time 'cause I know I won't do them, et cetera, et cetera. And there's always things I want to do, but they're not my top priority to invest on right now. I might be working with a coach, and let's say I'm working on, my funnel or my webinars.
On the other side, there's still, maybe I wanna work on my social media, when maybe I wanna do some PR, maybe I want to, sort out all my legal contracts I don't know. Do you know what I mean? There's all these things that are also important that I need to do, they're definitely on my list, , but they're not the top priority for me to invest in right now.
And I think, like you were saying, that's where AI is so tempting because it's like, well, maybe I could just build a, I don't know, whatever, a PR agent that can scrape this website and write me a PR or whatever it is. You can tell I'm not doing it. write me a press release or [00:24:00] whatever it is, a pitch, and send it out, and maybe, I could get AI.
Because it's not my top priority, but if I could move it forward in some way, maybe it doesn't have to be perfect, maybe it's okay that AI is doing it. I'd probably do it and then realize, this is really pointless. it's not pulling out, I don't know, the right people or the right opportunities or, I actually do need someone who's an expert in PR to help me.
Is it worth me actually paying for a membership or is it one-to-one or whatever? And then maybe I'd go into it. But I do think there is something about the things that aren't our priorities but we still want to do, AI does give us that level of access, whereas maybe before it's just not available to you, so you'd either wait, or you'd invest
Ruthie: I think that's the thing. I think it's like fast food, isn't it? It's
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And don't get me wrong, I do know that there are people, and I work with some people actually, who are using AI in extraordinary ways to an incredible level. I think the operator and the knowledge and understanding that the operator has plays such a huge part in that. And so [00:25:00] sometimes when I'm trying to build stuff, I'm like, I haven't got the right knowledge to be able to build anything that's good enough. And then there's such a amount of content out there that it's hard to wade through to think,if I'm gonna do a membership, which one should I do?
Or if I'm gonna
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: on building agents, which one should I do? And it's the time and energy and all of that thing. So I think what feels like a shortcut sometimes isn't, but I
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that appeal of I could just get it done. We're all so pulled into this idea of super productivity, and I think AI has accelerated that,
at the moment I'm building a quiz for somebody, one of my
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: and I've built a quiz for them previously and for other clients using a well-known like quiz piece of software, and it
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: weeks of work.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: Working out the dynamic scoring, making sure that the right people were getting the right results page, thinking of the question logic, the weighting, all of that.
Ages. I built one yesterday afternoon.
and so it can be done really well, but, the only reason I could do a good job of building [00:26:00] that quiz really quickly using Base44 Claude, a combination of the two, was because I had the preexisting knowledge of it needing to look at dynamic content and, know, logic and weighting.
If I hadn't have ever done that first bit, I wouldn't have been able to do a good job. Could have done it still, but it probably would've taken me a lot longer. So I dunno. I just think it is that kind of fast food mentality of can I just get it done though? Could I
Sophie: Yeah. I think that's exactly it. Last night I was trying to get... I've got, hundreds of screenshots from clients and stuff in Canva. My Claude is connected to Canva. And so what I wanted it to do was instead of having them all in a folder that says screenshots, I wanted it to organize them into,ones that were about, financial wins, ones that were about, lifestyle wins.
just so that when I was trying to look for something specific, I didn't have to scroll through all hun- 150 of them. And it was like, "Yeah, I can do this," and, got the API connector and it could read them all. And then it was like, "Oh, I can't..." It could identify them all, and it could categorize them all, but it couldn't move them
Ruthie: unless it wanted to go into my browser [00:27:00] manually to do it.
Sophie: And it kept timing out. It kept not doing it. honestly, I must have spent an hour. It was in the evening, so we were watching TV, and I just had it next to me 'cause I had to keep the laptop on. I kept, refreshing it, and I had to do it again, and I had to keep the computer on, and then it timed out.
And then I was like, "Is there a better way?" We went backwards and forwards, and backwards and forwards. Oh my God, and it's still not done. I think actually could probably just spend an hour and organize them myself. And I think it's just that I just wanted it to do something while I was watching TV. I wanted to just be productive.
I just wanted it to be like, "Oh, I'll just set this off, and then I can sit by, on the table while I'm watching TV, and I can just make sure it doesn't time out, and that'll be great." And actually, it was a real pain in the arse. I didn't actually get any of it sorted in the end, so I'm still going to have to do it anyway if I want to.
but I just think it's that idea of, super productivity is so tempting
Ruthie: Yeah, it's addictive, isn't it? And, at the moment as well, I think in certain parts of my business, AI or , the idea of using AI is slowing me down. So for [00:28:00] example, I know, and have known for some time, that every time it comes to me doing my accounts for my accountant, as in, sending my receipts and, I'm just not in a good process with it.
Sophie: Yeah。
Ruthie: to the last minute. I've never got them in the right place, and I deeply resent doing it every time 'cause I'm like, "God, if I think about roughly what I charge for an hour,
Sophie: this is such a waste of my time. If I could spend this hour thinking about my business." Anyway, so I have this conversation with myself every time. The thing that's stopping me from doing what I need to do, which I just need to hire somebody and pay them to go into my emails
Ruthie: organize my receipts and stuff for me, 'cause that's where they all are. Chase me so that when the accountant messages me, they're just there, ready to go, jobs are getting done. But I'm not, because I think, "God, there'll be something I can do with AI there."
Sophie: Yeah, AI could do that for sure. But yeah. Oh my God, that's such a toxic thought, isn't it?
Ruthie: It
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: is. So I
Sophie: as well sometimes we are thinking AI could do it for productivity, but We haven't got the time or energy or inclination to then search out and learn how to train AI [00:29:00] to do it. And so
Yeah
Ruthie: in this locked state of not being done, not paying anyone to do it, and, yesterday I had to spend some time trying to find receipts in my emails again, which is like wading through swamp water. yeah, I think it's complex, AI, that we know that the truth is that it can be really productive. We also have this experience of sometimes not being very productive with AI, and we also sometimes don't make decisions when we perhaps would have because we convince ourself that maybe there's an AI solution for it
Sophie: And I just think the biggest part that plays under all of this is this, it just makes you doubt yourself. Sometimes I'm like, "How did I run my business two, three years ago when there was no AI?" it blows my mind that I didn't have any AI, and I wouldn't say I'm a prolific...
I use it, but I wouldn't say I'm, , on it 24/7.
Ruthie: So when you cast your mind back to pre-AI,
Sophie: yeah
Ruthie: and obviously we all believe that AI , is making things easier for us,
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: any less busy [00:30:00] now?
Sophie: No. No. I don't think AI makes me feel less busy. I think it makes me be able to say yes, maybe it makes me able to say yes to more things because I know I can get through more things, maybe. I think one of the challenges is that pre-AI, we were all pre-AI. So sales pages were all written either by a copywriter or by yourself or whatever, social content.
it was all, a level playing field. The challenge, I think, now that AI has come in, is that you've got businesses utilizing it, being faster, being able to turn things around quicker, being able to be more competitive. whatever it is, you've got businesses , that are using it, and therefore to completely remove it or not use it puts you at a disadvantage in some ways, and you're not on a level playing field anymore.
it wouldn't make sense for me to , spend a whole day writing a sales page now because I know I could do it a lot quicker if I use AI in conjunction with my brain
Ruthie: It's just hard, isn't it, to find...
Sophie: It's hard
Ruthie: really hard about AI is just the [00:31:00] balance
Sophie: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It's the balance and it's a little bit of, it just leaves a lot of open loops for me.
That's what I find really annoying. Could I be doing this quicker? Should I be doing it? And I also endlessly wonder, am I doing stuff that AI could be doing? I don't know what I don't know. Maybe I should build agents, but maybe that'll be another thing I just build and then never use.
Ruthie: All the time I'm like, "Ooh, I tell you what you could do with AI." I even message one of my clients like really late at night. It's fine. She likes it. she might not actually. and I was like, "Oh my God, I've just had such a good idea for AI." And then she messaged back and was like, "That's genius.
Do you think you could do that?" I'm like, "Yeah, I think I could." But is it pulling me... Is that important?
you remember that... Oh, it's probably got a name. I'm sure you'd have used it in corporate, and maybe even in your work now actually. Is that, four, quads, and you have, urgent and important,
Sophie:
Ruthie: urgent, not important, not urgent, and you've got the different
what AI does is make you think everything is both urgent and [00:32:00] important.
Sophie: Yeah, 100%.
Ruthie: I cannot tell you how many things I've saved that are AI things I think I should be doing
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. Like the carousels of "You could be doing this," and all I do is record a podcast, and then, this agent does this, and this agent does this, and this agent does this, and then it just does... And nobody has to touch it. And I'm like, "Oh, that would be amazing." And then I'm like, "Would it?
Would it be amazing?" I think for me, I have a little bit of distrust and I'm obviously not building it properly. I feel like there's always gonna have to be some human intervention or "Oh, that process doesn't quite work this week," or, "That's not quite how it goes."
And I just think, "Oh, I don't know. I just can't be bothered."
Ruthie: this is the thing. I think we just have to follow the thread of things that are actually working. I've got two things that work really well that are AI agents that I don't have anything to do with. Everything else I have created has been a, a litany of failures really, like shit for for many reasons.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I've got that work really well is, one, and this would be useful for you actually as well. one, I have an [00:33:00] automation. I don't think it's an agent. What is an agent? Do you know what I
Sophie: Oh God, nej ja
Ruthie: it's an automation that goes into my Slack that's part of my Bloody Good Story Club, and every time I have written a prompt, it takes the prompt and drops it into a Notion board so that I've got a running record of all the prompts I've used.
Sophie: Nice
Ruthie: don't have to do it manually. I was doing it manually. Don't have to do it manually. It puts it all in a really nice Notion board for me. The first time I set it up, I'd done something wrong. I still don't know what it was, and it wasn't doing it. And originally, the very first time I did it, I'd linked it to a Google Doc, and I didn't realize that I couldn't get it to update the same Google Doc, so it was recreating a new Google Doc every time, which is just messy.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: it can go back into the same Notion board. So that works really well. And the other thing it does brilliantly, and it really does do a good job, is it goes into the same Slack and looks for any positivity, any testimonial potential, anything good that's been said, it into a Notion board, and [00:34:00] categorizes it. So does a little category for me, and it lives in that Notion board. Those two things work really well, and I genuinely think, "Oh, that's good," because they're the type of jobs I'm not very good at. I'm not very good at long-term record keeping because I can't be arsed,
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: and I'm not very good at noticing... only notice the testimonials that are like, " Oh my God, I signed three 8K
Sophie: like, "Oh, I'll screenshot that." But I'm not noticing the little wins and the little moments, and
Yeah
Ruthie: job of that. Outside of that, and I probably have tried to create hundreds of them, they've all been shit
Sophie: Yeah. those are really good ones. I have got a couple that are relatively similar. The one that springs to mind that's slightly different, which works really well for me, is, every Monday it checks everyone's payment plans in my world, and it tells me , if there's any ones that have bounced or defaulted and whether there's any ones that need canceling.
and , how many, months in everybody is. So it just gives me an overview of where I'm at with payment plans, and make sure that we don't drop the ball on any of [00:35:00] them. That has worked really well, and it was the kind of thing that I didn't really feel like...
I mean, we had, spreadsheets, like we've got it all there,, I quite like that it's just presenting it to me. So it sends me a Slack message with the information every Monday morning. That's really helpful. That takes something off my plate. It gives me peace of mind, it makes me see where I am.
So I feel like there's those things. But I think what we've- just talked about there is really functional admin-led things, not coaching or sales pages or Instagram content, and I think that's where I find it much more challenging to like reconcile, is this helping me? Is this actually causing more issues?
that's where I find it more challenging.
Ruthie: And I suppose, in the whole fear of losing your job thing, I suppose even us saying that, if you're like a VA,
Sophie: Mm. Yeah.
Ruthie: "No,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: work." And so I can still see why there is fear around, the role. And I see some people who are then taking the opportunity to, "Okay, I'm gonna bring AI in." I've had to do that. I've [00:36:00] had to say, ... When I'm having discovery calls now, I wouldn't have dreamt of this 18 months ago, but now I'm
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: to be using AI to
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: efficiency?"
and more often than not, people are like, "Yeah, I do. I want more bang for my buck. I trust that you can edit it in a way or that you're prompting it in a way that means the outcome is still better than what I would create." So they're paying me more to be an operator and someone who is gonna really create the best possible output.
so I suppose for people where there'll be other industries or other spaces in this industry where people will need to do the same, to stay,
Sophie: in, stay in the mix.
Yeah, 100%. Okay. Oh, it's really interesting. So next week, oh, next week we're talking launching. Ooh. Yeah, coming up to September, we thought it'd be really good to dig into, my launch plans and how they're very different to the previous few years. and Ruthie's reluctance.
Ruthie: My reluctant launch plans
Sophie: I'm hoping actually that by us talking [00:37:00] about it next week, it will really get my arse into gear. you know sometimes you just need to, publicly say something out loud to make it
Yeah. Yeah
Ruthie: I know you've said part of the reason you'll do a live call is because you know you've got to show up for it.
Sophie: Oh, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. I will deliver if I turn up live.
Ruthie: I'm
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that if I talk about it on next week's episode, then, at some point in September I'll be coming back talking about my incredible launch
100%. we're gonna go and actually record that now. do
Sophie: we'll see you next week.
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