Ep 15: Should I Care About... My Business Feeling Hard?
What this episode is about
This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into the idea that if your business feels hard, you must be doing it wrong, & why we think it's one of the least helpful stories doing the rounds online.
Somewhere between the laptop-by-the-pool content of a few years ago & the "I only work school hours & still make Pilates" version we're all being shown now, most of us picked up the belief that a business done right should feel easy. So when it feels heavy, or sticky, or just a lot, it's very tempting to decide something's broken & go looking for a different plan.
Sophie is 9 years in, with ads, recurring revenue & support on the client side, & she's still building a brand new workshop & 5-day offer from scratch this autumn. Ruthie built a done-for-you business in the middle of lockdown & is now deep in the bit between that & a group programme that pays its way. Plus our Launch Diaries update: 70 sign-ups, about 35 sign-ups, & the Instagram posts neither of us can make ourselves write.
Key topics covered in this episode
In this episode:
Sophie's "if a post doesn't feel good, it won't do well" theory, right 9 times out of 10, & what Ruthie thinks it's missing
What changed at home last year so Sophie could keep her 7am gym class, & the pressure that came with it
The £14k done-for-you months Ruthie built in lockdown, & the day Tone came home & a slow career break turned into working till 8pm
Bloody Good Story Club at 11 members & £60 a month, & the maths that gets very sweary once you ask how many people it would need
Why low ticket offers are the hungriest of the lot, & the "which poison are we picking" question Sophie asks before anyone chooses a model
meet your hosts
Sophie Griffiths
Sophie is obsessed with working with impatiently ambitious women who want to build a business based on connection and depth and refuse to accept they can’t work less and still earn big money.
A fast talking scaling strategist who teaches women to grow their businesses with ads, offer they are obsessed with and marketing that actually feels fun.
Over the last 9 years she’s grown the business alongside 2 high energy girls, a cavapoo dog who doesn’t understand personal space, an ADHD diagnosis & strong (positive) feelings about trashy TV (yes Off Campus..) & salted butter.
ruthie walmsley
Ruthie is a storytelling strategist and recovering English teacher ( and deputy headteacher) who helps women turn what they actually think into content people can’t stop reading.
One husband, one son, one ridiculous puppy called Bernie, an obsession with storytelling and a CV that includes some of the biggest names in the online business space.
Read the Podcast episode transcript
NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Episode 15
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care with me, Sophie Griffiths
Ruthie: And me, Ruthie Walmsley
Sophie: Hello. We've got, something exciting is happening this week
Ruthie: Goodness, it is.
Sophie: there was a blank face there. . I didn't remind you. You were like, "Oh my gosh, what's ha- what is happening?" Yeah.
Ruthie: I was like, hang on, what are you talking about? No, Can I just
Sophie: Go on.
Ruthie: blank
Sophie: yeah, go on. Yeah,
Ruthie: a lot of exciting things happening at the moment,
Sophie: we do.
Ruthie: and I was just trying
Sophie: Work out
Ruthie: out which, to which one you were referring. Continue
Sophie: I should have been more specific, let me try again. We're recording on a Monday today instead of Thursday because on Thursday something really exciting is happening, and we are meeting in real life for the first time. Whoop, whoop.
Ruthie: We were talking about this last
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: and I think we've spent so much time
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: various online rooms
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I don't know if I'd have realized we hadn't met in person.
Sophie: No, I know. Me too. Yeah
Ruthie: I did find out when we were having this conversation that you're tall[00:01:00]
Sophie: I know. So she, it's, Ruthie's like, "And you're not tall, are you?" I was like, "Yeah, I am." I'm five foot nine, so I would say I'm definitely, yeah, I'm definitely on the taller side. and people are always really surprised by that. So I'll meet someone, they'll be like, "Oh.
Oh, you are... No, you're a bit taller than I thought you were. This is misaligned, I'm afraid, with my image of you." I don't know if I give short girl energy. I don't know
Ruthie: Honestly, , the thing is, it's the one thing, obviously I meet a lot of people online,
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: I meet them in real life, and their height is always the thing that I get completely
Sophie: I know, it's weird, isn't it?
Ruthie: people turn out to be really tall. I met one of my clients, and She'd been my client for, three years, and we hadn't met 'cause of COVID we met in person, and she was, like, nearly six foot, and I am what's commonly known as five foot and a fag packet. So I'm, like, short. I am short. And so she was like, "You are a borrower. What is going on?" And I was like, "You are so tall. what's it like up there?
Sophie: And so now I just like to get some clarity before I
Yeah.
Ruthie: life, are you tall? Give me [00:02:00] some
Sophie: Expectations.
Ruthie: looking for?
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: So I know now. You're 5'9", that's great.
Sophie: Exactly. Everybody knows now, so if you ever meet me, you'll be expecting the right kind of height. I think the trouble is for me, when I meet people who are, , short as opposed to just, average, is that it just brings huge amounts of, school trauma back of just feeling like...
So there was in my year, there were six Sophies. it was such a beautiful , 80s name. and so obviously you had to come up with, names for people. So my maiden name is Henley, so it'd be like Sophie H. But in one group, there was like a smaller Sophie.
She was very short than me. So she was, Little Sophie, and I was Big Sophie. I just feel like there's a lot of undealt with trauma around that because when I stand next to a short, I just feel so, big and, oversized. I can't bear it. Yeah
Ruthie: as a short gal, I look at anybody who's 5'5" and above, and I'm
Sophie: Yeah. Wow.
Ruthie: look how
Sophie: Wow.
Ruthie: are. They're like a gazelle. Look at them moving through with such grace." Especially when tall people walk is when I get the most envy. Number one, [00:03:00] they're
Sophie: Do you?
Ruthie: getting places, they're getting places super quick. But also, there's just a grace
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: cannot, I cannot get going. I am always like a waddle.
Sophie: when I think I'm walking with grace,
Yeah
Ruthie: a video of it, I'm like, "That's why I can't do B-roll that involves me walking," 'cause, it would go viral for all of the wrong
Whereas when I see a tall person I'm just like, "Look at the grace." one
Sophie: look at her go.
Ruthie: friends I think she's, 5'10", maybe 5'11". To me, that's really
and known each other since we were 11. We're both blonde. And so I've always just felt like the version of her that got hit on the head with something heavy cause she's, tall and slim and I'm, like, short and not slim. And so she... I just felt like someone had got something heavy
Sophie: Ja
Ruthie: it on me, and I was like the concertina version of her.
to say, we are meeting in real life.
Sophie: yeah
Ruthie: event. I'm super excited for it. I actually can't wait
Sophie: No, me too. it's a client event,we have got... There's 12 of us, and we're gonna spend the day together, and we're gonna be doing strategy in the morning with me, content in the afternoon with Ruthie, [00:04:00] and then we are going in, we're gonna have a little dip in a lake. There's a sauna. There's paddleboarding if people wanna do it.
So I know it's gonna be such a vibe.
Ruthie: I love it when I see people paddleboard. I'm like, "Wow, that looks amazing."
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: don't think I could... Someone would need to, airlift me and drop me down
Sophie: Yeah. Once I'm on, I'd probably be all right, but it definitely would be the getting on that would be like, yeah, mortifying. so should we do quick launch updates as we're doing quick updates each week? How's it going for you? You start this week
Ruthie: I think we'll talk about this in a bit more
but I've got big starter energy, so I'm like, "Yeah, let's do this. I'm excited." I find this bit a little bit harder to keep going with the promo. I'm like, "Well, I've told people now." even though I know I need to keep going, I haven't perhaps done as much content as I wanted to.
I've done three posts, and I've done, one email, which is actually pretty poor. So I'll try and get another one out today. 'cause I've got a week to go really to get people to sign up. I'm at about 35, which
Sophie: Nice.
Ruthie: excited about.
Sophie: And I had to tell myself actually, when I was in a little [00:05:00] bit of a grump about it, the close of last week,
Ruthie: if told me weeks ago that I'd have that many people signed up, I'd have been buzzing my tits off.
I'd have been like, "Oh my God, that's so good." But because I had one post that's performed particularly well, anything else now, I'm just like, that's not very good. I want another
of people." And you know when you just start changing your projections based on one tiny bit of success,
Sophie: ja
Ruthie: God, if I did posts,
Sophie: brought in 30 people,
Yeah
Ruthie: be..."
And, then you start , to create, like a failure matrix for yourself. So I need to give myself a bit of, a kickstart. However, I have done that by dropping off my Vinted parcels at the post office,
Sophie: I'm here for that
Ruthie: think is a great way to start a Monday, because now I feel like everything is possible. so I'm definitely gonna do some sort of post today, maybe about Vinted, that has a bridge in
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: about my
Sophie: Sure
Ruthie: but no, I think it's going well. I think I've had some really lovely DMs and stuff about people being excited to be in it, and what I feel good about [00:06:00] is that there isn't, a complicated sell required from me in that, know, they're coming to an open week of the thing that they can then buy at the end.
So, you know, hopefully that's gonna be simple. So no, I'm feeling good. New week, I'm gonna try and really churn some content out today. that's what I'm trying to do, motivate myself to keep going is probably where I'm currently at.
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I guess I'm feeling similar. So again, I've been going for, we've both been doing it for promo for a week now, haven't we? and I've got 70 signed up, which I'm pretty happy with. I've still got... Mine is a week Wednesday from when we're recording. This is the 23rd of September.
So I've still got , a good chunk of time. to be honest, I only normally start promoting it around now. So I'd normally starting from zero at this point. So yeah in that sense, I'm like, "Yeah, it's good. People are signing up." They're like, the people signing up all seem, really good fit.
it feels like it's good, quality. I think I made posting on Instagram really hard for myself last week. I just, I couldn't quite [00:07:00] click into it. when you're just like, I can't quite find the words, the angle. I just made it really hard for myself. I just was finding it really heavy.
And yeah, I just, it felt heavy. And I think that's because I haven't had that post that has just clicked and just got, a, a flurry of people, , using the keyword. And I think , the mindset thing. For me , with launching, it's all about mindset.
everything is there. The emails are going out. the posts will come. I will do them. But it is so easy for me to get, off track if I feel like it's just not clicking. And I do have this real thing, which I know is really hard, especially as you're scaling and growing the business of, if I'm just not feeling a post, I find it really hard to post it, 'cause I just know that it's just not gonna do very well.
Ruthie: Dạ
Sophie: what's the point?" And I would say nine times out of 10, I'm proved right. So if I just post something, even though I know it's not gonna do very well, I would say nine times out of 10, I'm like, " Knew it. that was stupid. That was a waste." And I have all this thing about "Oh God, what are people gonna think?"
"Oh [00:08:00] no, people are gonna notice."
Ruthie: mean, they will now 'cause I'm talking about
Yeah. Everyone's gonna be looking now, so you've really done it.
Sophie: But I also know that signups are really good anyway, even without having a post that's kicked in, if you like.
So the plan for this week is all of my emails are scheduled already, so I've got three emails going out.
I know. I'm feeling quite smug about that.
Ruthie: I was gonna say smoke
Sophie: smudge bitch. Just because I find emails so much easier than Instagram. I will happily sit down and spend, a couple of hours writing a load of emails, getting them scheduled. That just feels like such a big tick box for me.
Ruthie: Yeah, gorge
Sophie: big challenge is staying visible on Instagram through launch periods.
I am so prone to just dropping off Instagram during a launch when it just feels like... I don't know. There's just... It feels like a weight of "I'm just gonna step back from this 'cause it just feels a bit too uncertain for me." I don't know what it is. So
Ruthie: if, what if you did, 'cause stories are your,[00:09:00]
Sophie: Thing.
Ruthie: you're good at
Sophie: I am
Ruthie: and I think that you find them easier. What if you did, this week, a live launch diaries of things that you're doing, day-to-day life, like the balance, the juggle. But in some of them you're dropping in links to the workshop, or you're talking about what you're doing for the workshop, or you're talking about the things. 'Cause one of the things that I always suggest to clients when they're in launch windows is that.
Sophie: if the direct talking about it, for whatever reason, isn't feeling like it's there, and
can be all sorts of reasons, then don't talk detail, talk about it.
you're still then promoting it.
Ruthie: So you can just tell people what you're doing. So "Today I'm working on the slides," or, "Today I've scheduled all my emails," or, I'm trying to motivate myself to talk about it." And be honest about things like that, because you are then still talking about it, and curiosity is enough that people will take that open loop
Sophie: and go and explore it. And I think, we mentioned this , on another episode, but just go back through your best performing posts, Soph,
[00:10:00] repost them with a bridge.
Yeah
Ruthie: Or if you've got these emails, which are great, your emails are really good. That's not coming from a place of bias. I'm on your mailing list and I'm always like, "Ah, good one, Soph.
Love that." just turn that into a storytelling carousel
Sophie: I know. I think that's what I am not very good at. I'm not very good at taking stuff from email over into Instagram. I think what I find is on email, I feel like I can be quite chatty. It's obviously long form. I ... And I feel like I can be a bit more teachy on email. It feels like I can be a bit more like, " this is the story, this is what happened, this is the moral of the story, and this is why you should really join.
Come
Ruthie: Yeah.
Sophie: Whereas when I then translate that to Instagram, it feels like, it feels icky. - I'm like, "Oh, God," this feels too Do you know what I mean?
Ruthie: Do
Sophie: I'm gonna try and tell you exactly why you should come and do this workshop. And I think what I've decided is, A,
i've got a few posts that did quite well in previous launches [00:11:00] on a similar topic, so I'm gonna use those. One is, my rating my past group offers out of 10 and why. That's a nice one. Yeah.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: I'll redo that one, and then I think , I'm gonna take the pressure off the grid , because actually, the reality is often the ones that do well are not the ones that I plan to do well on stuff like this. So I'm just gonna take the pressure off.
Ruthie: like the danger in that story that you tell yourself,
Sophie: Yeah, I
Ruthie: to,
Sophie: Yeah, go on.
Ruthie: but I think this thing that you tell yourself about your best ideas never been particularly thought out quite a dangerous one. Because I think what it's actually doing is just
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: to not plan it out.
Sophie: I know
Ruthie: And I think, the reason why email feels so much easier is because just then in this conversation, you were able to articulate a formula that you're following, essentially.
Sophie: a predictable one, but a loose one where you like to start with this, then you're gonna do that, then you're gonna bridge to that.
Ruthie: And actually, when it comes to, the way that you see ads, for example, you talk about how it's really important to have this section, then you [00:12:00] bridge, and you've got to have nurture content available on your social to continue
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: up. And actually, in nearly all topics, I would say one of your strengths and qualities is that you do have, really easy ways for people to plan and understand things.
this is the thing, this is the way we're gonna do things. For whatever reason, you've decided, or not decided, to tell yourself a really different story when it
Sophie: I know
Ruthie: which is that if a post doesn't feel good, that you're nearly always right. That you, the ones that just flow out of you always tend to do better.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think that those things are probably true.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: But I think the more that you reinforce that truth, the harder you're making social media for yourself
Sophie: I know. I totally agree. I just, I don't know how to break it.
Ruthie: Yeah.
It's just do
Sophie: Just do it. I know. And-
Ruthie: You've gotta see social media as an experiment and a testing
Sophie: at the minute you are holding off proving your theory, because you're like, I just think that, 90% of the time I'm [00:13:00] right." That might be true, but you're not posting enough to have a proper data set
Yeah. I know the trouble is that I did three last week, which didn't feel particularly good. they just didn't feel like they were quite there, and it proved me right.
And so now I think that's the problem, is that now I'm like, it's very hard to keep going with something if you're just like, "Well, I just, I did it.
I have done it." and it didn't work.
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: gonna put myself through that? and the ones that don't come easily, they take me so long.
oh my God, I literally spent hours and hours last week doing those posts, and it did not give me the result I wanted. So I think this week, I have already posted this week.
I am really trying to break my habit of just being like, I'll just post once this week, or , I'll try and get to it later in the week." So I have planned out what I'm gonna post. Like you say, I'm gonna reuse some. I did, a very easy B-roll this morning just to, get me back in the zone,
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: then I am gonna try and stick to the plan this week and see how it goes
Ruthie: would do as well, and I'm trying to give [00:14:00] myself some
Sophie: Go on. Yeah
Ruthie: of the things that I always tell people to churn out
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: a launch window like, a fun, playful about me style post.
there is something that they can find out about whatever it is you're selling. tenuous it is, however it
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: something in that's like, 10 things about me you should probably know before we work together, or whatever it might be. some of them are completely random, and some of them are like, For example, a way that you could hook it in
Sophie: Mm.
Ruthie: I get distracted easily. for example, this was meant to be a post promoting my upcoming workshop, and instead has turned into a autobiography.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: it- there's a way that you can get them in there that will feel fun, that people are likely to engage with because it's fun and they're finding stuff out about you. your fact that you don't drink coffee,
Sophie: I know.
Ruthie: those sorts of things.
I know, shocking.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: But yeah, I think when it doesn't feel fun, it's the first thing I try and do is make it
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: Like,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I always [00:15:00] enjoy, and how can I just shove something in there about whatever it is I'm promoting?
Sophie: Yeah. I think that's what I'm gonna try and do this week, is just, make it a bit more fun again. I just want a bit more... I think the trouble is that I put so much pressure on myself in the comments because I love comments, and I love replying to comments, and I love having conversations with people.
And so when it's not getting the engagement, it's not even just "Oh, this is a bit rubbish," or, "It's not getting me the goal I want," or even "Oh, people will see." It's more like it just doesn't feel fun for me when people aren't responding back. it just, for me, it's such a two-way thing.
It's not just "Oh, I'm gonna put a post on and then just never think about it again, and, what will be will be." It's such a, two-way thing
me, and it's feels crap , if it's not two-way
Ruthie: Yeah. I c- I feel that completely as well. I love it when people are commenting and you can have a little chat, and it feels like there's that reciprocity.
Sophie: Ja
Ruthie: And, that's a good thing that you are trying to be social on social
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: a great many people who don't see social media as space,
Sophie: a massive failure of [00:16:00] so many people when they're seeing it purely as, marketing space, not socializing
Yeah
Ruthie: yeah, it's hard. And I'm saying all this to you, Soph, whilst also just, really bumming out about my own content. I'm a complete and utter hypocrite. but I also think you could ... I know this isn't even the topic, but we've just gone off kilter here. But I also think sometimes when I go through your stories, I'm like, "Get that as a post as well."
Sophie: Yeah, I definitely could do that
Ruthie: of stories that work as a really lovely cohesive post. Screenshot them, put it as a carousel, Some people will see it in stories, some people will see it, in the grid, because you are so able to speak freely and stuff. You're a great storyteller in stories.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I would sometimes also just think, "Sod it, I'm gonna screenshot that, put it as a carousel, and see how it performs."
Sophie: No, you're right. I should definitely do that as well. although we say we've gone off on a tangent, we haven't because we decided the topic today was going to be, because I think we're not the only ones that find it hard when things either are not clicking [00:17:00] or, it feels, harder than you hoped it would be or should be.
And this is I guess we're talking launching, we are talking specifically launching today for us. But I think generally this is just broader business as well, isn't it? And I think there's a real, online, thread and, I don't know, assumption like promotion, that if you are doing business right, it should feel easy all the time.
And if something feels hard or if something feels sticky or if something feels like it's just not working, then you're doing it wrong and, it shouldn't be that hard. And, I can definitely see how I have played into that on Instagram. I do talk about how much recurring revenue I have coming in and how, the hours I do are much less now and the boundaries I've put in.
, And all of that is true, but , what I do really try and balance that with is, like, how much I spend every month and, . I talk a lot about the fact that, like nine years into this business and for the first five years I made fuck all money.
I think what I sometimes feel like is that we can make ourselves wrong for it feeling hard, and then we [00:18:00] can decide not to do the hard stuff and avoid, and be like, if it feels hard, then I'm not doing it right, and so I should stop or I should do something else," or, "It is just too much."
And I just think, I think there's a real conversation to be had around there about, what we're actually aiming for here.
Yeah, I feel this massively. And I think actually, for me anyway, and it might just be about when I started spending more time online with a business head
Sophie: like that whole kind of 2019 to 2022 Bali
Yeah
Ruthie: nomad vibe that was really prevalent on my feed I think certainly kicked this off a little bit in that it was like this idealized lifestyle of I get up, I'm gonna have a green smoothie and an acai bowl, or however you say
Sophie: Yeah,
Ruthie: don't know if
Sophie: no me neither
Ruthie: and then I'm gonna do a couple of emails maybe on a laptop Maybe I'm at a cafe Do you know, there was this like really signature visual that I was being fed about that, that has now spread [00:19:00] wider. So there's so much out there that's about having the right automations in place that you shouldn't have to work that many hours a day.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: should be able to do all of the things that you want to do and a six-figure, seven-figure business. I really do think for some people that is true, I do, but I don't know how much we also get of the full picture. So those things are true, but how much have you spent on ads to bring in so many new leads that make the promotion of things easy? have you got a team? long did it take you to set up these automations? Because, I'm forever trying to set up automations, and not necessarily or that successfully, they take time. Even
Sophie: Oh my God. Yeah.
Ruthie: take
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: often when you set one up, you think, actually it would be even better if I could also have this set up," so it adds another thing to your to-do list.
Sophie: And so I do think that one, we do see easy it can be. What we don't see is what steps were taken to get to [00:20:00] that
Ruthie: easiness. I've definitely fallen foul and continue to fall foul to the idea that if I feel busy a little bit, like we all harassed, you know, like, "Oh, can I not say busy, I've got so much to do," I think there's something intrinsically wrong with how I've set my business up then.
I've
Sophie: wrong here, because everyone else seems to be having a less stressful time or a less busy time. So I definitely feel the same, and I know so many other business owners who do, where it's just like, God, why does it feel so hard? And I think sometimes it feels hard because what we're shown is that it should be easy, and so by comparison it feels hard
Yeah. And I agree, and I think that, you know that Bali lifestyle thing that was really prevalent in 2019 to 2022? I think for me that has evolved to . and again, it's probably just my feed and who I'm following and what I interact with, et cetera. But , it's the mum vibe.
So it's that "I never miss a drop-off or a pickup. I literally just work school hours. I never work in the evenings. I never work weekends. I, do all the after-school [00:21:00] clubs and like my husband's away a load, so I'm literally like managing everything. and I only do three hours work in the day because I like to go to Pilates in the morning, and I need to make sure that I've got the homemade snacks ready for when they come home."
And,
Ruthie: Yeah
Sophie: last year my husband had to go part-time because I couldn't hold all of that. I have to work more hours , than just doing school hours and all the kids' stuff around it. At the moment, I cannot do my business in those hours. And having him at home , being part-time allows me to have massive flex.
So it allows me, like this morning I went to my 7:00 AM gym class. I came back, I had a shower. He took the dog out for a walk. One of us then took the kids to school. It allows me massive flex that he works part-time, but it's like it's not easy. Then the, flip of that is that then I have to earn more money for us to be able to do that, and that's quite a lot of pressure.
That feels like, although it's not that the money's not coming in, but that still feels like, oof, [00:22:00] God. okay. Like there's no like you can't take your foot off the gas here. I really, like that has to happen for us to be able to have this lifestyle. and I think I have put a lot of things in place to buffer, against the business feeling hard.
I've got six-month programs so that I have recurring revenue. I run ads so that I always have new people coming in. What else do I do? What else do I do? I have really strong boundaries, and I go to the gym, and I do stuff like that. That buffers me against it feeling as hard.
It doesn't mean it never feels hard, and it doesn't mean that I have to put a hell of a lot of work in, to get to this point and to keep it going. like I said a few weeks ago, I have got a new workshop and a brand-new five-day thing, paid offer that I'm gonna be running in the beginning of October.
That new workshop, all of the content is new, all of the promotion is new, all the marketing is new, the actual workshop is new. I then will have to go into promotion and selling of the actual five-day thing, again, all from scratch, and then I will have to create the five-day thing. that is a huge amount of [00:23:00] work that I have put on my plate.
Ruthie: Absolutely massive.
Sophie: about,industry,
how many people in a team would be working on producing the collateral
Yeah.
Ruthie: that sort of thing?
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And yet, we've got tools now that can make it easier and they're a way that we can take shortcuts and, AI helps massively with some of the heavy lift of that. But, all of that you've just listed,
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: can that not feel hard
Sophie: Yeah. Yeah
Ruthie: Like, how can it not feel, at the very least, how can it not feel time-consuming?
Yes. feel like there is shit that needs to be organized? I've gotta plug those emails in and make sure they're scheduled.
And actually, as they're scheduled, I've also gotta go back in and make sure that they're scheduled for the right times based on when my audience is most like. You know, if you're doing it well and you're doing it thoroughly, even when you're, using the tools and you really experience that's a lot of
manpower that is required, and often we're working in businesses where it's,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: two or [00:24:00] three, rather than teams of, marketing departments of 20. Do you
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: I just
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: not feel a bit hard
Sophie: Yeah. And I think where I have also maybe another buffer that I have is that I have Nicola who works in the business, and she works, 20 hours a week, so that's what, roughly 80 hours a month. And I would say, a good 80% of her time is client... it's all client side really. So I do all the marketing.
So everything I'm talking about, I do. I write the emails, I write the workshops, I write the social posts. I schedule the emails. I do everything marketing side and, business development. She takes on, a really good chunk of the client side stuff. So client,
Ruthie: Ja.
Sophie: onboarding, checking in with clients, like, making sure they've got everything they need, , setting up backend stuff for me, in terms of, systems and processes.
she is all about, client and ops. And so I wouldn't, definitely wouldn't be able to do this launch I'm doing now if I didn't have, A, that level of support in the backend with clients [00:25:00] and with, running the actual business. she does all,the finance side and, works with the bookkeeper and, like, all that stuff.
Ruthie: also, I created an offer that isn't, massively time-consuming intentionally. So it's like it's really boundaried. This is outrageous, I'm talking about. It has a really strong curriculum. it has very boundaried times when I give people, , feedback and I'm online and I'm there, and then we have, fortnightly calls.
Sophie: So that is very contained, and I can see really easily then where my pockets of time are and how much time I have. Because I think when you've got an offer, and I guess this is what my workshop is about, and the reason why I changed it is because for so many people, the offer is taking up so much of your time that the idea of then launching or, adding anything in is really,is, totally unfeasible.
it's totally unmanageable to be over-delivering in an offer and feeling like you're having to be available 24/7 for your clients just to get the money in to, break even every month and pay yourself, to then add in, a mega launch and, or even, evergreen [00:26:00] automations or, even, like, setting up ads.
It just feels like it's too much. And I do think there is a balance between us being a little bit like, " Guys, it is hard. there's not really any shortcuts. It's really hard. You do actually have to sometimes dig in and do the work," with, people burning out and it getting to a point where it's like you are trying to run before you can walk.
Shall we just take a little step back here and work out what you are actually running this business for? Because it's not to burn out
Ruthie: Yeah, and I think it's a really hard balance, isn't it? Of I think sometimes you have to, I don't know, it's like trying to get that bird's-eye view of your business, isn't it?
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: definitely, I got myself at one point, not right now, but at one point where I was probably bringing in about £14,000 a month done for you
Sophie: Oh my God
Ruthie: And I was not pricing myself in a
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that easy.
I was [00:27:00] constantly working. And I'd got some really bad habits that came from my old job where, anyone who works in education will talk about the fact that you work all the time. it is completely normal for you to be marking at weekends. It
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: normal for you to be working in the evenings. And so I was so in the verse of that, that I was like, "No, it's fine." And also, I'd built my business in COVID,
Sophie: I built it at a time ... So I took a career break and the whole plan was that my husband was able to sustain us for a while. I'd saved some money. I'd got about three months worth of money that I needed saved.
Ruthie: But he was like, listen, take a minute. Really think this through. There's no rush here." then that was January 2020. So I was, like, doing things like, taking my laptop to Costa
Sophie: like, tootling around on the internet. Not really doing anything, just thinking.
Yeah.
Ruthie: a lot of, Venn diagrams of, ideas I'd got.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: And then, obviously, Tone came home one day and was like, "Quick problem.
I've gotta close my business
Sophie: Oh my God
Ruthie: says I have to, and I've got 20 staff that I need to pay, and
Sophie: Okay.
Ruthie: no clients
Sophie: [00:28:00] us anything." And so all of a sudden, my business went from being, like, this lifestyle, kind of, slowly, slowly, to
Ruthie: Like, okay, we can't pay our mortgage now
Sophie: because all of our money's going on paying the team
Yeah
Ruthie: doesn't have to make anyone redundant. And this was before they announced, what was it called?
Sophie: Furlough.
Ruthie: Furlough.
Sophie: So this was just, in that window. So I was like, I've gotta go pedal to the metal." So that was fine, because Tone was off work because he couldn't work, so he took the complete ownership of the childcare.
Ruthie: So
Sophie: He was, like, two or whatever at the time. just went pedal to the metal. And so I was working from first thing in the morning till, 8:00 at night. Took on anyone.
Yeah
Ruthie: who wanted anything, I was like,yes." And so I think there was just, a series of bad habits that meant that I built up this done-for-you business where I was definitely burning out.
I was like, "This is completely unsustainable." But then you get attached to the finances, and you're
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: I've now built this life around the fact that I'm getting all of this done for you done." And it was in the boom, as well,
Sophie: you could launch anything and it would sell.
Yeah.
Ruthie: that period of time
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: it was quite easy to launch and sell, and everyone [00:29:00] wanted to buy an online course, and no one had been burnt by online courses yet.
think ... Yeah, so I definitely had got myself to that point. And so then it's like, how do you bring those two up to each other where I'm creating more space where I haven't got this insane workload? But I still need to work hard to get this other thing off the ground, and I haven't necessarily created any time for myself.
And so I think I first started hearing people talk about group program, you being one of those voices, I was like, "Oh, fucking hell. this could be it."
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: actually when you're doing a group program versus one-to-one or done for you, If you do it right and you build it right, the same amount of time is required of regardless of how many people are in the container or the program or whatever it is. yeah, I think it's, okay for,to go back to what you were saying, it is that combination of okay, it feels hard and that's okay 'cause sometimes I just think we have got to say that out loud. Sometimes you are gonna have to work your little tush off
Sophie: To see the success you want, but not at the expense of, your wellbeing, and I think you're good at that. I like hearing you talk [00:30:00] about boundaries 'cause I'm like, "Yes, Ruth, do some boundaries. Have some boundaries." go to the gym,
Ruthie: do what you need to do. So yeah, I think it is hard sometimes if you've started your business in one direction
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: brave enough to go, "Okay, I'm gonna commit to doing things differently even though one method has proven successful to me
Sophie: Yeah. And I think that is the trap that a lot of people get stuck in when, like you say, they go from either done for you or one-to-one, where they've been just, coaching one-to-one. And they're like,this isn't sustainable for the level of money I want to bring home." So it's either they're overworking just to hit the revenue, or they're like, I'm maxed out and I'm still not hitting what I want to earn."
And then it's like, I want to add a group program in." So they add the group program in, but the reality is they, in most circumstances does- my clients anyway,, they're undercharging.
Because they're just like, "I just want to get this off the ground.
I just want to get people in. I just want to get this moving." They are offering things... I say, and when I say over-delivering, I think it's quite an [00:31:00] interesting one because I think people often think "Oh, you're just available 24/7." Don't necessarily think it is that. I think it's maybe that you feel like that, and that you add stuff that are essentially one-to-one elements.
So you're adding too much stuff that essentially caps you being able to grow it to where it needs to go because you're like, "Well, I physically couldn't have 50 people in this because I need to give them one-to-one feedback every single week."
and then they get stuck in that because actually then it's like, "Oh, I've still got some of my one-to-one or done for you clients.
I've got this group, but it's not really paying its way. In fact, it'd probably be a hell of a lot easier for me to take one more one-to-one or done for you client on, and it would probably cover the group - and it'd be a hell of a lot easier, and I wouldn't have to launch all the time, and I wouldn't have to grow my audience, and I wouldn't have to, do, have run ads and have a welcome sequence and do workshops.
I could actually just do that one client." But knowing that it's like, yeah, but I need to push through this because I know that long term, if I want to hit those big financial goals, that is the way to do it. But it's very hard when you are [00:32:00] stuck in that, and that's when I think it can feel like really hard and you're doing it wrong.
And I actually just think it's a really hard juggly phase of business when you are trying to still get that group so it actually gives you enough revenue to dial down the one-to-one done for you clients enough to then give you the space and time to grow the group. And that is really hard
Ruthie: And that's what I think, and certainly where I'm sitting at the minute, is that actually getting the group program off the ground, didn't feel hard actually. It felt really exciting. It was nerve-wracking. I was nervous. doing it, it's like, it's all the, glittery bits that really hold my attention.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: "Oh yeah, I'm gonna speak to my friend Lou," who is an amazing designer. She's gonna design me, a brand identity,
Sophie: love it
Ruthie: come up with the name of it, and I'm gonna write some emails, and I'm gonna be so excited because it's the first time I'm writing about it. And all of this feels, like, really shiny and new.
And then I've got my group program. I love it.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that it's got potential. I can feel that it's got [00:33:00] potential. I can feel that things are happening and the, women that are in it feeling good about it. One of them's had, a bit of a viral post this week.
Sophie: Woohoo!
Ruthie: really good, not because I teach virality.
In fact, she was laughing because last week I did a post that started, "I actually don't know how to help you go viral." And she was like, "Liar."
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: but, know, it feels good. But for me, I'm, like, constantly now "Now what?"
Sophie: Because I love it and I'm having a nice time, but it's not doing what I want it to do for my business with 11 women in it.
And so then I'm in this, turmoil of,what are the next steps? Like, how do I grow it? How do I grow it in a way that still feels this good?
know, I've got all these fears about, what if the more people that are in there, the less personal it feels? And I can tell myself these stories of,I've got a really great relationship with all the women in there, but actually probably- And I wouldn't wanna change that, but it's probably not realistic for that to grow at the price point that I priced it, which is,£60 a month.
Ruthie: I'm giving almost, mastermind level relationship at
Sophie: £60 a [00:34:00] month. And so I think when we talk about deliverables and that kind of thing feeds into it as well, like the rapport building, the relationship building, how
Ruthie: they get, how much conversation, that's one of the things that can become hard to scale.
So I definitely think sometimes it's easy to start putting these bits in your business that can make it feel long term,
Sophie: but it's definitely a bit chewy with, or not even to start with, in this midsection. you always say, don't you, the second launch is harder than the first?
Yeah. And I think that is definitely it. I used to talk about, the messy middle quite a lot, and I think when I was talking about it, this was a few years ago now, I was probably talking more about, you've got your first few clients and now you wanna, fill out your diary, or now you wanna, think about having a group program.
But I think for me, where I'm thinking of the messy middle now is much more about this phase. It's so messy trying to, do your done-for-you work or your one-to-one work, bring those people in, help make sure that they're still really happy and that you're still, giving them great service and results.
[00:35:00] Because, , when you're off over-promoting and, you're, like, big and shouty about your group, it can be, really easy to think, "Oh my God, I hope they're not thinking that I'm, , skimping on their work," yeah, because I'm, like, doing their work. I think it is a really, muddly period, and I don't...
unfortunately, I think most of us anyway, probably just talking about myself here, I can tolerate that muddly feeling for a little while, but probably not as long as is needed. I do, because I have got through it, but it is really hard. And it is even harder when you're doing it on your own, because I think so often when I'm working with coaches or I'm in a group program or whatever I'm doing, they will be the ones to pull me back to being like, "Come on," "you can do this.
Keep going." "Shall we just remind you that actually, three people signed up last week,the fact that no one signed up this week actually isn't the end of the world." and I would say that period goes on for far longer than most of us would hope that it would
Ruthie: Yeah. And it's how to navigate that, isn't
Sophie: when you design these things, I think often [00:36:00] lots of us will do like a rough financials of
would this program work? , So using the Bloody Good Story Club as an example, at the moment my first cohort was £60
so I'm like, I would love to get to a point, my sort of long-term goal is to be able to have consistent 20 to 30,000 pound months.
I would love that. I think that would feel great.
like my big goal, if you like. And I would love to have, my goal is to have a 50/50 split, 50% done for you work, because there are clients that I love working with, and I do love the returning revenue of that.
Ruthie: that it gives me just that, sense of like I'm not employed, but I like that feeling.
Sophie: So I'd love to be in a 50/50 model where 50% is generated by done with me services and 50%'s done for you. So then I'm like, okay, how many people would I need to have in the Bloody Good Story Club to get there if that
Yeah
Ruthie: was my only offer?
Which it might not be, but if that was my only offer, then I want it to be creating, let's say, 10,000 pound a month. So how many people would [00:37:00] I need to have in it? So then I'm sitting at 11 people,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: that my long-term goal might be to get to, I don't know, I haven't got the numbers to hand.
What would it be?
let's say 100 people would be six grand.
Sophie: even there. 150 people. If I want 150 people, now what the fuck do I do, Sophie
Yeah
Ruthie: get to... And that's what's hard. That is one of the things that's hard is that it's asking of me to come up with a strategy to come up with it and deliver a strategy whilst looking after the people who are already in the group and completing my done for you services.
Sophie: I think, why it feels like I'm not sitting by a pool in Bali. 'Cause if you think about everything I'm trying to do, it's like a, a one-woman business, isn't it?
Ruthie: marketing, I'm promotion, I'm strategy, I'm delivery.
Sophie: And I think that probably as well the, low, middle, high ticket offer thing is also really easy in this situation , because you have to work out, don't you, what's your preference? So to get 150 people in, you're going to have to have a really fucking robust, [00:38:00] strong, audience growth, system plan.
Because, to get that many people in, you're gonna have to be reaching a hell of a lot more all the time to then get those people in. So I always say, lower ticket offers, memberships, that sort of thing are-- they're hungry fuckers. They are so hungry. if you wanna run something that's lower ticket, it's so hungry, you have to feed the beast all the time.
And I think the reason a lot of people go for a lower ticket offer isn't because they want that. It isn't because they're like, "Yeah, I wanna run ads and I wanna do, big launches, and I wanna be,, feeding this beast all the time, and I wanna have, a group of 150 people." It's normally because it feels easier to get people to say yes to something that's low ticket.
So it's like, "Well, I'll start here because it feels much easier." And then I would say generally when people start there, they tend to add on a group program at some point because they realize, " Oh, okay. what I'm gonna have to do to play the game to get the people in isn't actually how I wanna run my business.
That isn't actually what I wanna be doing with my time. What [00:39:00] I wanna be doing with my time is having, less people, deeper connections, a big transformation, and, a really clear outcome." So they tend to then go for that, middle layer of, some kind of group offer, which has a bit more of a start and end point, and you can charge a lot more for.
And then suddenly getting your 10 grand a month, if you ran it alongside, say, the membership, suddenly doesn't feel quite so hard. Because if you're charging people, like, 1,500 or two grand, suddenly you're like, "Oh, actually," it's still quite a lot of people because you might say, "Oh, it's five people," but if they paid in full, and that's one month.
if you're running it over,six months or four months, you're looking at, let's say, a payment plan of, if it was two grand, you'd be looking at, I don't know. I can't even do the bloody maths. Let's say 500, say over four months, you still are looking at, 20 people to bring into that level program.
It's a hell of a lot less. But you have to then be able to hold, and I think this is also a real challenge, and I really struggle with this as well still, is, hold that, over-responsibility of,if I'm charging £2,000 for [00:40:00] something, oh my God. what pressure is there on me to then deliver something that's, like, worth that amount of money?
Whereas it feels much easier to be like, "Well, it's 60 quid," so that feels quite different.
Ruthie: think when you're working in isolation, which I often am,
Sophie: Yeah。
Ruthie: of the people that I work with are also working in isolation, you can become like an echo chamber of what is a good offer,
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: is a good idea. Like you can convince yourself, because you've got like all of the internal monologue around an idea, it feels like a good idea to you because you've thought of it from its like birth and concept,
all the way through. But then you can find yourself, and thankfully this isn't the case with Bloody Good Story Club, but I've worked with people where it has been. Once you get to that bit where you're actually trying to sell it, you suddenly realize, like what is it that I'm offering here? what
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: to say?
What is it that they're struggling with that's gonna , make this the answer?
Sophie: that's one of the, just the whole piece of like, okay, I've [00:41:00] started something. I've done the bit, and there's so much out there about how to get started with things,
Ruthie: and it's a little bit like what I'm trying to do with the Bloody Good Story Club is that there's loads of stuff on coming up with an idea for a social post. There's far less stuff about how to keep doing it.
Sophie: Yes. Oh my God, yeah
Ruthie: to keep posting, how to stay in a rhythm, like how to keep coming up with ideas. and it's the same with what you're offering with your, workshop. It's just okay, you've got the idea, you've got the group program, but now what?
Sophie: And I
ya
Ruthie: this is part of the problem is that all this marketing that we see online about business being easy, how many of those are actually to do with messy middle bit
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: about?
Sophie: Yeah.
Ruthie: are actually to do with getting to that part of your business and carrying on?
Sophie: . And I think that is definitely the biggest challenge for most of my clients that come to me. It's I feel I did the thing that I thought would be the hardest bit, and I've launched the group. Now I've got people in, and I've realized that actually, and this word, I find this word so challenging, the word scaling, but it's actually scaling it that is the [00:42:00] biggest challenge, and that's the bit that people find so hard.
But when , I'm doing content and I'm talking about, "Oh, you wanna scale your business," or, "You're struggling to scale," it just feels like such a, online marketing jargony word.
And so many times, I've worked with so many different people on social media over the years. Everyone's always been like, "Yeah, but what's the, scaling? It's too much of a jargon word and, how can we make it feel really real? And how can we..." I'm like, "I get it, but,we could talk about growing your business.
We could talk about,the transformation." But fundamentally, that is the challenge that I work with. It's people that have the group, have done what they felt like would be the hard thing, got it up and running, but now are like, "How the fuck do I scale this without, losing the plot?
Or because I can't cope
Ruthie: and how do I make it like an ecosystem?
do I get into a rhythm with this that feels good and that is sustainable and that I can manage myself? Or, or, like bring [00:43:00] interested advisors or whatever. I think that's just the bit that's so hard to find information on.
It's like, I've launched it, I've got it, it's got some people in, it's not gonna sustain my business
that many people in, and I don't know what the right next steps are. I've got loads of ideas about what the right next steps are, but it's just hard, isn't it? And I
Sophie: you know, we were talking earlier about ultimately when we're selling things online, we're trying to either say, "I can give you more money," or, "I can help you get more money,"
can help you get more time," or, "I can help you do both."
Ruthie: But what's often not available is like what is the layer underneath that? Like, how do we get there? just want a little roadmap to follow or advice , from someone who's done it, what do I need to do next? And I think realistically it's not just automations and
Sophie: Nej
Ruthie: set up using AI, and that's all we're getting served at the minute, or
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: So it feeds me like, "Do this with AI. Set up a super agent. Set up this. You've got to have this automation." I want all of those, but also I just actually need like old school
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: advice first before,
Sophie: [00:44:00] plugging in automations that I don't even need,
Yeah
Ruthie: don't make sense. So I think it's just there's so much starter content out there, and there's so much look at where I got to content out there, but can someone just tell us all the bits in between? That would be super helpful and would make it feel like less hard work,
than it currently does.
Sophie: that is the workshop in a nutshell. So if we're gonna bring it back to that, I know you've signed up, Ruthie, you're gonna be really excited. I know you're gonna be excited when you come. But yeah, fundamentally, that is outrageous as a program, and it's the workshop. It's like, how can we make it feel easier to sell?
And by easier to sell, I don't mean, you're just gonna be, like, working an hour a week and,have, something going on in the background. What I mean is, your messaging actually resonates with your ideal client, that people find you and get the offer really quickly, that you have people finding you all the time.
, And they're the right kind of people. They're the kind of people that don't need saving. They're the people that are like, "Oh my God, I want to do this faster, [00:45:00] and I want our help doing it." those kind of people, the action people, not the ones that are like, "This is so awful, and I hate it, and I don't want to do it anymore.
Can you save me, please?" Sorry if you're one of those people, but it's a hard no from me. Like, I don't need to save anybody.
Ruthie: No. And I think, as I say, I'm signed up and ready to be there, and I think loads of people , need this, middle ground
Sophie: "Okay, you've done it, now what?" That's my thing. I'm,
Ruthie: myself all the time like, "You've done it, but now what?
You did it in April. Now what?"
Sophie: just hard, and it's hard to take the next step when you're on your own as well. I said to you earlier, didn't I?
no way have done this launch if I hadn't have said it out loud on the podcast. I 100% would have told myself, "Actually, maybe I should do a full year
Yeah
and launch again in April." but because I said it out loud, I was like, "Fuck, gotta do it." Gotta do it.
Ruthie: and beauty of accountability, isn't it?
it makes you get shit done. But I think what we wanted to say, really, is that, both of us have felt at various points in our business that whenever something feels hard, it [00:46:00] automatically is a sign of something not being right.
Sophie: But I do think there is another lane which is it's hard because you're doing loads, you're making crazy progress,
Yeah
Ruthie: to make things happen. That's why it feels hard, and you're balancing it with the complications of whatever's going on in your personal life and whatever other mental load you're carrying. And sometimes the business perhaps isn't the thing that's feeling particularly hard. It's just when you're balancing it with everything else. I just think it's so much more nuanced than some of the messaging that we get online, which is it has to feel easy to be right
Sophie: I think that's exactly it. you can make it feel easier, but I think in making it feel easier, it's still a lot of work. And like you do actually have to just be like, "Are you up for this? And are you up for the type of work that you've signed yourself up to?" Because it's a lot of work whatever way you do it.
Whether you're gonna do a fully automated evergreen funnel, which by the way basically means you're gonna have to become like a full-on computer, numbers nerd, and be like in that data 24/7 if you want a full ads evergreen funnel. [00:47:00] Whether you're gonna launch and it's gonna be high ticket, whether you're gonna do low ticket and high volume, all of them are hard work just in really different ways.
And a lot of the work that I do with my clients is working out which poison are we picking here? Because this is like, do you know what I mean? I know for me that I could never do a low ticket, high volume offer because it's just not where I want my energy to be.
whereas other people like absolutely thrive on it. but it's like working that out for you, I think.
Ruthie: And I think, my offer is low ticket. And I definitely think there's some mindset stuff that contributed to me doing low ticket.
Sophie: my first dalliance into this side of my business, and I think partly why I did it was safety. easy to convince people, an easy decision for a buyer because it's not asking too much financially. But what is also true is that I noticed through my high ticket work as done-for-you services, that there is a massive audience of business
Yeah
Ruthie: who cannot afford done-for-you services, who are committed to marketing, like you were talking about. Not like, "Save me. God, I hate [00:48:00] it." Not whingers. Women who are hardworking, tenacious, doing amazing things, but just long-term have not got the financial investment to have regular ongoing retainer work done for them, ..
or some of them are actually you. They are, I've tried outsourcing my marketing. It doesn't work for me.
Sophie: But need to get into a better rhythm
you know, for all sorts of reasons." So I did also create it because I noticed there was a market for that person who couldn't afford done for you or didn't want done for you, but still did wanna be in a space where ideas were more plentiful and support was more plentiful And who, don't enjoy some of the stuff that the algorithm does and just wanna tell their story and use social as, a means of expression. So again, it's just thinking through, the offer, isn't it? Of, are you doing it purely 'cause it works for you, or is it,
Yeah.
Ruthie: audience for that as
it's just all such a balancing act and I think there's, a lack of honesty about all that goes into creating the spaciousness that we sometimes see promoted
Sophie: No, I [00:49:00] agree. Oh, on that uplifting note
Ruthie: It is uplifting.
Sophie: No, it's uplifting.
Ruthie: great.
Sophie: It's
Ruthie: failing
Sophie: great.
Ruthie: hard. You're not
Sophie: No.
Ruthie: if you're working hard
Sophie: Exactly. okay. I think maybe next week We'll do a debrief on our day together, how the day goes. Maybe we could give a bit of an overview on, what we do and give people a bit of an insight into the vibes.
Ruthie: How tall is
Sophie: After all,
Ruthie: How
Sophie: yeah.
Ruthie: is Ruthie?
Sophie: Exactly
Ruthie: are... How tall are the other women that are gonna be? I'm meeting some of our joint clients
Sophie: are.
Ruthie: Yeah. clients that I've worked with because of you.
Sophie: Yeah
Ruthie: gonna be like, "How tall are they? We're gonna find out a lot on Thursday
Sophie: you guys will get a complete debrief next week, so tune in.
Ruthie: Tune in
Sophie: Tune in. We will see you next week. Bye
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